Template talk:Alberta provincial highways

Missing highway

There is also a spur Highway 10X that lead from Highway 10 into the hamlet of Wayne near Drumheller. I don't know how to add it to the template without messing things up, so I'll leave it for more experienced hands. I'm not going to create a separate article for 10X, I'll just add it to the existing Alberta provincial highway 10 article. 23skidoo 05:37, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

 Done, 28 October 2009. 117Avenue (talk)

Can we also add rows for Highways 3X, 4X, 11X and 16X? Although they do not exist yet, they are future highway bypasses or realignments just like Highway 43X. Highway 3X includes the future Crowsnest Pass and Lethbridge bypasses. Highway 4X includes the eastern portion of the Lethbridge bypass. Highway 11X involves a future realignment of Highway 11 from 30 Avenue in Red Deer to east of Red Deer. Highway 16X includes the future Hinton, Edson and Lloydminster bypasses. These alignments can be seen by opening the 2008 Primary Highways, 1 to 216 Series Progress Chart external link on the Alberta Highways page. (Hwy43 (talk) 08:14, 4 November 2009 (UTC))

Secondary highways

I think that the template should be edited to have a category for Secondary Highways. There are now four Alberta Secondary Highways with Wikipedia articles (666, 734, 459, & 881). I haven't done this already because I don't know if there is supposed to be a consensus first before changing a template. --Windrider6 21:57, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I've added a row for secondary highways. Can't find the article for 459. You don't need to ask for consensus first if the edit is uncontroversial, and I really doubt anyone would contest this. –Pomte 23:39, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, mistyped. Should have been 759, not 459. Someone has mistakenly moved "Alberta secondary highway 759" to "Alberta provincial highway 759". I will set up a move request back to "Alberta secondary highway 759". --Windrider6 00:23, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the extra row with just four numbers looks odd. Aditionally, the anchor convention is a much more practical approach. --Qyd 22:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I guess I'm not so smart. I don't see the purpose of hiding content, and I don't know what you mean by "the anchor convention". All I see is that you've hidden the secondary highways section, which I had planned to add to. Maybe YOU think it looks odd to have only four numbers, but everything has to start somewhere. Maybe secondary highways in Alberta are not very important? I won't bother to work on them then. --Windrider6 04:57, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Anchors: Alberta Highway 500 is a redirect to List of Alberta provincial highways#500. Highway 500 in the list is marked with <span id="501">, so the redirect points at the exact place in the list. This approach was proposed some time ago, but didn't gain a lot of support, and wasn't widely implemented. I honestly believe that having an exhaustive list is a better approach than creating a few stubs. --Qyd (talk) 00:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Agree. Doesn't make sense to hide in the mean time; maybe a split when it gets too large. Qyd, what do you mean by anchor convention? There are no anchored links to List of Alberta provincial highways. –Pomte 00:48, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Not anymore... they were deleted (about the same time when all highway articles were renamed). The id's are still present in the list though. --Qyd (talk) 23:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC) Correction: the redirects are still in place (such as Alberta secondary highway 500, but the actual links (in articles) were moved to Alberta Highway 500, so it doesn't quite work anymore. I'll move the redirects to the new Alberta Highway xxx naming convention, so that the anchored redirects will work. --Qyd (talk) 23:53, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

The secondary highway list was completed 26 August, 2009. 117Avenue (talk) 21:30, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Greetings – A while back, I changed the highway headings from "Primary Highways" and "Secondary Highways" to "Primary Highways, 1 to 216 Series" and "Primary Highways, 500 to 986 Series", but they appear to have been reverted back. Although I personally feel the traditional "Primary" and "Secondary" branding is more appropriate and logical, the Province of Alberta rebranded the highway designations approximately 10 years ago (or maybe slightly more recently). I believe this may have coincided with the Province taking back control of the 500 to 986 numbered highways. Not sure the motivation of the rebranding. Anyways, about 2.5 years ago I inquired about some mapping data from Alberta Transportation and the person who responded, in an unfortunately patronizing tone, that there were no longer secondary highways in Alberta, just two sets of primary highways – the 1 to 216 Series and 500 to 986 Series. See the two Primary Highway Series Progress Chart links I just added under the External Links header. This rebranding is probably the reason behind the disappearance of the "Primary" and "Secondary" text above the highway badges on highway signs over recent years. Hwy43 (talk) 1:24, 3 November 2009 (UTC). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hwy43 (talk • contribs)

What then is the definition of primary highway, if all highways are primary? The term "500-986 Series" is awkward, since the 500/600 series, 700/800 series, and 900 series are different classifications of highways, as defined in Secondary highway series, it also limits the numbers at 986. Saskatchewan is similar in the fact that it classifies by hundreds. I see the Alberta Transportation maps you have linked, but the Alberta Sustainable Resource Development Provincial Base Maps still call then secondary routes. 117Avenue (talk) 00:50, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree that it is awkward and I was disappointed to learn of the redesignation. My personal preference is the traditional designations. I took the liberty of contacting Alberta Transportation (AT) after I made my post to gain a better understanding of the history and the rationale behind the change. Surprisingly, I received a prompt reply and here is an excerpt, "... all of the former Secondary Highways became Primary Highways over several months in 2000 and 2001. The name change occurred when management and control of the highways was transferred back to the province. The name change was to reflect that they are now provincial highways and no longer under municipal jurisdiction." I can forward the email if preferred. As for the 500/600, 700/800 and 900 numbered highways, I would then consider them each a sub-series of the Primary Highway, 500 to 986 Series. Regarding the Alberta Sustatinable Resource Development (ASRD) base maps, AT has jurisiction over highways so either those responsible for the base maps at ASRD don't even know of the redesignation, or they chose not to update their base mapping accordingly. It is common for Provincial ministries to not communicate with each other, or to not ensure consistency with each other. Alas, I've heard numerous MLAs still refer to them as "secondaries" as well and I have seen post-2001 consultant reports commissioned by AT that still refer to them as "secondaries". I notice that the Alberta Road Map series (produced by ASRD for Alberta Tourism, Parks and Recreation) no longer differentiates between primary and secondary highways in the road map's legend, so perhaps this news has infiltrated a portion of ASRD. All being said, shall we update these Wiki pages to accurately reflect the official designations of Alberta's provincial highway system as of 2000/2001? (Hwy43 (talk) 04:20, 4 November 2009 (UTC))

Agreed, I will let you write the history of why there are no longer secondary highways. 117Avenue (talk) 08:19, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll do that as soon as possible. Note that I just made some slight revisions to Hwys 2, 11A, 16A and 43X. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hwy43 (talk • contribs) 08:28, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Kind of stupid this whole renaming thing. Now if the government does stupid things, should we follow suit (mash up the article content and confuse the reader in the process), or wait until they backtrack? --Qyd (talk) 10:29, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Indeed it is illogical and ridiculous from an optics perspective. I can't fathom what justification was used to rename these highway designations just because of a jurisdiction change. However, the spirit and intent of Wikipedia is to present current and accurate information. In other news, I've found online verification of the redesignation in a report on AT's website. See the first paragraph after the "Municipal Roads" bullet on page 1.3, and see the final paragraph before the "1.4.2 Municipal Government Act (1994)" heading on page 1.5 of the Provincial Highway Service Classification report (November 2007). (Hwy43 22:36, 6 November 2009 (UTC))

Yet another highway rebranding

Not even a month after the above discussion closed and all the appropriate changes across WP were made, Alberta Transportation (AT) rebranded its highways once again. On November 25, 2009, the new Highways Development and Protection Act was proclaimed to come into force on January 1, 2010. This new Act rebranded all primary highways in Alberta as provincial highways. (On a related note, a Freeways and Access Locations Designation Order was proclaimed in force on the same day as the Act, to come into effect on the same day as the Act).

Per section 1(1)(s) of the Act:

• “provincial highway” means

(i) a highway or proposed highway designated as a provincial highway under this Act, and

(ii) a highway that has been designated as a primary highway under a former Act if the designation is subsisting on the coming into force of this Act.

I sat on this for over a year primarily because I wanted to see if the 2010 versions of the highway progress charts reflected this rebranding before hastily advising that everything needs to be changed again, especially after all the effort that was expended the last time around. Both progress charts (1-216 and 500-986) were finally posted on AT's web site in late 2010, and both reflected the rebranding. In these progress charts, I also observed that the Series that formerly followed 1-216 and 500-986 had been dropped.

This more simple provincial designation is more logical and much less confusing than the last rebranding where primary was applied to what was previously and traditionally secondary. Therefore, I am going to start revising the applicable Alberta provincial highway articles to reflect this new rebranding. This will necessitate category and template revisions as well, but I would ask those who are more proficient in categories and templates to process these. I'll provide some time for further discussion on this before I jump in head first. Cheers, Hwy43 (talk) 07:33, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

It changed all over again! Great. Well, I can't argue over that. 117Avenue (talk) 08:23, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, but changed for the better in my opinion. At List of Alberta provincial highways, I intend to change the sections from Primary Highways, 1-216 Series and Primary Highways, 500-986 Series to Provincial Highways 1-216 and Provincial Highways 500-986 respectively. Undecided whether or not to put spaces on either side of the hyphens (the progress charts have spaces). I also intend to create a new section on the history of branding now that the designations have changed twice in ten years. Hwy43 (talk) 19:17, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

@Acefitt:, with all the good work you've been doing on Alberta freeway articles, I want to apprise you of the above discussion. In short, Alberta Transportation implemented highway designation rebrandings twice over the past couple decades.

• primary highways → primary highways, 1-216 series (ca. 2000) → provincial highways, 1-216 series (ca. 2010)
• secondary highways → primary highways, 500-986 series (ca. 2000) → provincial highways, 500-986 series (ca. 2010)

117Avenue and I (mostly 117Avenue) implemented the ca. 2000 change in late 2009, only for AT to change the designation essentially as we just caught everything up. I can't speak for 117Avenue, but I never got around to implementing the second round at that time due to being winded from the recently completed previous effort, only doing less intensive minor edits to each highway article (such as this low hanging fruit). I never got back to implementing the more substantial and significant effort necessary at List of Alberta provincial highways, Category:Alberta Primary Highways, 1-216 series, Category:Alberta Primary Highways, 500/600 sub-series, Category:Alberta Primary Highways, 700/800 sub-series, Category:Alberta Primary Highways, 900 sub-series, etc. I'm guess now is the time to get back to work. In the meantime, please try to avoid use of the archaic primary/secondary highway terms in your edits to Alberta provincial highway articles. Cheers, Hwy43 (talk) 07:09, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

@Hwy43: I have absolutely no problem with that. At the moment, I'm trying to decide if I have enough content to spin off Glenmore to a separate article. There is enough, but then I'm not sure what it'd to the hwy 8 article in terms of being redundant. -- Acefitt 07:17, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

So many unfinished projects, so little time... 117Avenue (talk) 02:30, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

117Avenue and Acefitt: with the recent and longer term history of secondary highways now articulated at List of Alberta provincial highways#History, I think now, nearly six years later, all that is needed to finish this "unfinished project" is to file the request to rename the four affected categories (I don't think any further template changes are needed; please advise of otherwise, 117Avenue). I'll put this on my to do list for the weekend. Hwy43 (talk) 07:08, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Discussion to rename subcats initiated at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 November 12#Alberta provincial highway subcats. Cheers, Hwy43 (talk) 07:03, 12 November 2016 (UTC)