Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds

WikiProject Birds

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The shifting of the Spotted Creepers (Salpornis sp.) from treecreepers (Certhiidae) to spotted creepers (Salpornithidae)

The Indian spotted creeper and African spotted creeper need to be placed in the family Salpornithidae, as per the International Ornithological Congress and the Clements Checklist of the Birds of the World.

Things to do-

1. Make the family page of Salpornithidae
2. Correct the species pages for the spotted creepers
3. Correct the country lists

Could anyone help me in doing the above?

Note: I will be able to make the family page by myself, as I have access to many credible sources such as the Birds of the World. Mitsingh (talk) 10:59, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

The family Salpornithidae contains a single genus Salpornis. On English wikipedia monotypic families are included in the genus article. Thus a new articles is not required - but more could be added to the Salpornis article. The Indian spotted creeper and African spotted creeper are already placed in the family Salpornithidae according the speciesboxes.- Aa77zz (talk) 11:48, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

I'll give it a quick check over; the taxobox spelling 'Salpornidae' needs correcting to Salpornithidae, for starters - MPF (talk) 12:28, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

I was about to say the same about the family article. I changed the taxonomy template for the genus earlier today so the family spelling mistake is mine. I've also started modifying the articles, which isn't as straightforward as expected.

The country lists and other articles referring to Salpornis can be found with this search (49 results).  —  Jts1882 | talk  12:33, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

@Jts1882 - I think I've got it corrected to Salpornithidae throughout now; involved editing 2 templates as well, so it'll need a checkover to see I've got it right - MPF (talk) 12:37, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Looks correct. Only those two templates need changing. I was careless when I changed the parent in the genus template and then the system created the family template at the misspelt name. Incidentally when moving a taxonomy template blank we don't want the redirect at the old name. You can blank the the redirect and add category:Unnecessary taxonomy templates, which will tag the page for deletion.  —  Jts1882 | talk  13:28, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

@Jts1882 thanks! I find template editng very daunting, full of complex code I don't understand, so I prefer not to touch them if I can avoid it :-) MPF (talk) 14:43, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Once you've done a few hundred it gets easier, although screw-ups like mine today still happen. Feel free to ask me if you have issues with the templates. In general, if you ask on the automated taxobox template talk pages (or at WT:Automated_taxobox_system) there are a number of people quite experienced with the taxoboxes who will answer fairly promptly.  —  Jts1882 | talk  15:17, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Shouldn't we merge the article of Certhiidae with the one for Certhia as it is the only genus of Certhiidae? Mitsingh (talk) 14:02, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Probably, for consistency. However, as the two articles exist and are quite different (apart from the species lists), I'd be inclined to leave the status quo.  —  Jts1882 | talk  15:17, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

@Mitsingh @Jts1882 - I'd agree keep the Certhiidae article separate, as it has taxonomic history beyond Certhia alone, which other viewpoints / authorities may still accept. Although IOC is our lead taxonomy, we need to consider other views - MPF (talk) 15:31, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

African Spotted Creeper doesn't have any photos - I've checked iNat and there's some cc-by licensed there which I'll upload to Commons now - MPF (talk) 12:50, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Ok, thanks!

I'll have to update the country lists though. Mitsingh (talk) 13:56, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

@Mitsingh @Jts1882 @Aa77zz - now 30 photos of African Spotted Creeper uploaded, including both S. s. salvadori and S. s. xylodromus (but not the other two subspp.), at Commons:Category:Salpornis salvadori; still a few yet to upload. A lot of them also need some colour balance editing (red cast on a lot of them), which I'll do later. File:African Spotted Creeper Salpornis salvadori salvadori, Lilongwe, Malawi 08.jpg might be best for the taxobox, but check through all of them - MPF (talk) 15:38, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Yes, it is probably the best for the taxobox. Mitsingh (talk) 04:15, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

Could anybody try to find any photos which are okay to use for ssp.emini and ssp.erlangeri? Mitsingh (talk) 04:17, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

Sorry, missed this before; I checked both iNaturalist and Flickr, and there's nothing with a valid licence available of either of those two subspecies - MPF (talk) 22:25, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

IOC 15.1

IOC 15.1 is live. I'm preparing to update the taxonomy sections of the Tropical royal flycatcher and Atlantic royal flycatcher, their genus Royal flycatcher, and five other species' pages. IOC has moved all seven species to family Onychorhynchidae. The text changes are easy. How do I change the family in the taxonbars? Thanks. Craigthebirder (talk) 21:02, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

In the species infoboxes you mean? Change it at {{Taxonomy/Oxyruncinae}} (the subfamily taxonomy template). Reconrabbit 21:13, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

The genus page Royal flycatcher has a taxobox; the two species have speciesboxes. The two species and their genus page list them in subfamily Oxyruncinae and family Tityridae. When I changed Tityridae to Onychorhynchidae in the subfamily taxonomy template you linked, it wants a taxonomy template for Onychorhynchidae. I don't know how to create that. (I have to assume the subfamily remains the same, as IOC doesn't include that level in its spreadsheet.) Craigthebirder (talk) 22:54, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

It looks like {{Taxonomy/Onychorhynchidae}} used to exist but got deleted. I'm assuming that it is in the parvorder Tyrannida? I'm not getting any info from BoW and iNaturalist just jumps from Passeriformes to Onychorhynchidae. The red-linked template should give you information on how to set it up. Reconrabbit 00:51, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

If it's existed and been deleted, it should be easier to undelete, rather than create afresh? - MPF (talk) 01:30, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

I've asked the deleter to undelete it. Craigthebirder (talk) 02:02, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

It's been restored. Onychorhynchidae and Oxyruncidae used to be recognised by all (most?) checklists. Then the IOC (and also Clements?) lumped them into Tityridae. Now they are recognised again. With the taxonomy templates we try and delete the unused ones to keep the numbers down (there are over 100,000); it's easy enough to create a new one and hopefully the creator will add a reference.  —  Jts1882 | talk  09:12, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

I've updated {{Taxonomy/Onychorhynchidae}} and recreated {{Taxonomy/Oxyruncidae}} using H&M4 and Oliveros et al (2019) as |refs= for using Tyrannida as parent to the families.  —  Jts1882 | talk  12:29, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. Taxonomies of royal flycatcher, tropical royal flycatcher, and Atlantic royal flycatcher pages are now up to date. Craigthebirder (talk) 17:25, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

@Craigthebirder @Jts1882 @Reconrabbit - as an aside: seeing the hatnote, should Oncorhynchus be added to the 'do not confuse with'? That is even more confusable than the confusion name already given, particularly as it is often mis-spelled Onchorhynchus - MPF (talk) 23:49, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

Good idea, put it in. Craigthebirder (talk) 00:12, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Grey-crowned Goldfinch (C. caniceps) is split from European Goldfinch (C. carduelis)

The Grey-crowned Goldfinch (C. caniceps) has been split from the European Goldfinch (C.carduelis) according to both the Clements Checklist of the Birds of the World and the International Ornithological Congress.

This change has not been reflected in Wikipedia yet.

Things to do-

1. Create a page for the "Grey-crowned goldfinch"
2. Fix appropriate country lists

Mitsingh (talk) 12:17, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

@Mitsingh surprised that wasn't done a while back! IOC split it last year. species:Carduelis caniceps and commons:Category:Carduelis caniceps both exist; there are plenty of photos to chose from. - MPF (talk) 15:10, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

We still have to make the page, right? Mitsingh (talk) 16:28, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

@Mitsingh yes; I've updated the Carduelis page though. Just now, I'm busy working on renaming and updating 150+ photos in commons:Category:Carduelis caniceps, that'll take quite a while! - MPF (talk) 18:10, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

@MPF I'm working on a draft article on my sandbox-

User:Mitsingh/sandbox Mitsingh (talk) 06:13, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

@MPF Here is the draft of the grey-crowned goldfinch -

Draft:Grey-crowned goldfinch - Wikipedia Mitsingh (talk) 10:29, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

@Mitsingh thanks! I see it has already been moved to Grey-crowned goldfinch; I've added a bit already and will expand it a bit more later this afternoon - MPF (talk) 11:39, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Dubious reference?

This arises from the Grey-crowned goldfinch discussion above - Mitsingh cited a book "Taxonomy of the birds of the world" by an anonymous author "fotolulu" as a source for English vernacular names of subspecies. The first 30 pages are available here. So far as I can see, this is a self-published work, and the English subspecies names largely invented by the author without any peer review or basis in reality. I can find no review of the book anywhere; it certainly hasn't been reviewed in British Birds (which I would expect for a work with a title like this, if it was a significant text). Should this book be treated as an unreliable source and blocked from use as a reference citation? In my view, yes. What do others think? In general (in at least UK), subspecies don't have separate vernacular names in English, except in a small number of species with highly distinctive, readily identifiable subspecies, like Motacilla flava or Motacilla alba. The subspecies of Carduelis caniceps certainly don't meet that criterion (as a group while within C. carduelis they did, but not separately from each other). - MPF (talk) 23:05, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I would agree that this cannot be considered a reliable source, given that it's published by Books on Demand, a self-publishing service, and written by an unknown author. Worth also noting that the copyright page reads "English names of the subspecies © by fotolulu", not exactly a copyright likely to be enforced but one we should be mindful of as editors.

I'm not quite sure where the desire to invent common names for every single taxon comes from, but it's something I've seen quite a lot of - it's very common on iNaturalist to see entirely new, never-before-used common names added to taxa by users... Ethmostigmus 🌿 (talk | contribs) 00:38, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Here is his website - https://www.fotolulu.de/ Mitsingh (talk) 04:29, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Seems to be a photographer using a classification to organise their photos, who also wanted a complete list of German common names. It does say (or at least Google translate says): "The name should not meet any scientific demands. The names are based on translations from the Latin name, geographical distribution areas, the names of the discoverers and translations from English." Clearly there is no claim that these names are common names in the Wikipedia sense, just convenient vernacular names (i.e. a goldfincg subspecies confined to the Left Island would be the Left Island goldfinch). Calling it dubious seems unfair, but it doesn't meet the standards for a reliable source for Wikipedia.  —  Jts1882 | talk  07:18, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Proposed move of Scrub robin to Cercotrichas

I've proposed that the article Scrub robin is moved to the genus name Cercotrichas. Please take a look here: Talk:Scrub_robin#Requested_move_12_March_2025. - Aa77zz (talk) 19:06, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Maps

Hi,

I am making distribution maps for bird species. If there are any articles lacking sufficient distribution maps, please respond to me. Mitsingh (talk) 10:21, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

This is very useful, but what sources are you using ? It would be helpful if you added this information to the image file pages.  —  Jts1882 | talk  12:48, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

For now, I have done Indian birds, so Birds of the Indian Subcontinent has been useful, as it shows which areas the bird is resident, a vagrant, or a summer/winter visitor. Mitsingh (talk) 12:52, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

It would be much more desirable to use a more progressive approach via geojson than as images. Shyamal (talk) 14:44, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

La Palma Chaffinch

The page La Palma chaffinch is out of date, describing it as a subspecies of Common Chaffinch (now Eurasian Chaffinch) Fringilla coelebs. Since the split-up of F. coelebs into 4 species, it is now a subspecies of Canary Islands Chaffinch F. canariensis, from which it differs only minimally (unlike its substantial difference from F. coelebs). I was going to update it, but then thought: is it really distinct enough to deserve its own page? Would it be better merged into Canary Islands Chaffinch? - MPF (talk) 00:25, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

What a deafening silence! 😂 If no other comment I'll merge La Palma Chaffinch into Canary Islands Chaffinch tomorrow or soon thereafter - MPF (talk) 17:58, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

"Bird" Meaning

Some pages use the word "bird" to mean organisms of the class Aves, some use it to refer to avialans. This isn't consistent. We have to use one only. Jako96 (talk) 11:45, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

If there is no consensus or one single, clear definition, we have to reflect that fact, not take "sides". But yes, we should find a way to not present different views on different pages. FunkMonk (talk) 13:01, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

I think we should only use the word for class Aves. The page Avialae already states that some researchers use the word "bird" synonymous with avialans. Jako96 (talk) 13:28, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

IOC World Bird List updates

After doing some updates to List of birds by common name, I see that Violet-hooded starling, Violet-hooded Starling and Aplonis circumscripta now redirect to Metallic starling. My reading of the IOC World Bird List at https://www.worldbirdnames.org/new/ioc-lists/master-list-2/ is that Violet-hooded starling should be created as a new article. Thanks to those who have cleaned up the others. One more to go.

There are several species for which Wikipedia and the IOC World Bird List have different names.

Differences between Wikipedia name and IOC name

Wikipedia	IOC
Cliff swallow	American cliff swallow
Yellow warbler	American yellow warbler
Blue-throated goldentail	Blue-throated sapphire
Bahian mouse-colored tapaculo	Boa Nova tapaculo
Western sirystes	Choco sirystes
Christmas Island swiftlet	Christmas swiftlet
Comoros blue vanga	Comoro blue vanga
Comoros fody	Comoro fody
Crested white-eye	Crested heleia
Northern dark newtonia	Dark newtonia
Hood mockingbird	Española mockingbird
Cream-browed white-eye	Eyebrowed heleia
Southern giant hummingbird	Giant hummingbird
Grand Comore drongo	Grande Comore drongo
Green-backed twinspot	Green twinspot
Grey warbler	Grey gerygone
Grey-hooded white-eye	Grey-hooded heleia
Eurasian griffon vulture	Griffon vulture
Mees's white-eye	Javan heleia
Christmas sandpiper	Kiritimati sandpiper
Rock martin	Large rock martin
Red-tailed leaflove	Leaf-love
Cyanoramphus malherbi	Malherbe's parakeet
Malia grata	Malia
Australian wood duck	Maned duck
Mindanao white-eye	Mindanao heleia
Negros bleeding-heart pigeon	Negros bleeding-heart
Kākā	New Zealand kākā
Auckland Island merganser	New Zealand merganser
Kererū	New Zealand pigeon
New Zealand dotterel	New Zealand plover
New Zealand rock wren	New Zealand rockwren
Eupsittula canicularis	Orange-fronted parakeet
Painted redstart	Painted whitestart
Pale-chinned blue flycatcher	Pale-chinned flycatcher
Apolo cotinga	Palkachupa cotinga
Stephanie's astrapia	Princess Stephanie's astrapia
Pygmy white-eye	Pygmy heleia
Carola's parotia	Queen Carola's parotia
Pygmy white-eye	Pygmy heleia
Carola's parotia	Queen Carola's parotia
Greater sage-grouse	Sage grouse
Makira flycatcher	San Cristobal flycatcher
Delalande's coua	Snail-eating coua
Takahē	South Island takahē
Streak-headed white-eye	Sulawesi heleia
Sun conure	Sun parakeet
Spot-breasted heleia	Timor heleia
Blue-fronted amazon	Turquoise-fronted amazon
Waved woodpecker	Variable woodpecker
Woodwards's batis	Woodwards' batis
Yellow-ringed white-eye	Yellow-spectacled heleia

I'm sure there are good reasons for many or all of these, but wanted to make a clear list of differences. Thanks, SchreiberBike | ⌨  02:03, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

Cheers for compiling this list! Out of curiosity, do we consider it a mandate of this project to move all these pages over to the "official" IOC names? Though these are the official English names set by the IOC, they do not necessarily reflect the names actually most commonly used by birders in the relevant region, and there are a few of these that I find quite questionable, eg. the change from kererū to "New Zealand pigeon". As an Australian birder I can certainly say that everyone I know calls Chenonetta jubata "(Australian) wood duck" and not "maned duck". Ethmostigmus 🌿 (talk | contribs) 02:45, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

I though that the default was to follow IOC names, but that regional names might be favoured for birds found in that region. So some American birds follow Cornell over IOC.  —  Jts1882 | talk  09:01, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

@SchreiberBike @Ethmostigmus @Jts1882 - yes, that's right there are some where we follow local rather than IOC names; one where we don't but I feel strongly that we should add to this list, is Aegypius monachus, which is universally known as [Eurasian] Black Vulture in Europe / Western Palaearctic, rather than the wholly inappropriate Cornell/IOC "Cinereous Vulture" ('cinereous' = the colour of wood ash, i.e., pale greyish-white: totally wrong for this bird).

But there is also the additional point that a very few species pages here follow Cornell taxonomy as well as names; these I think should be worked over to IOC taxonomy to conform to the rest of our coverage (and Commons', and Wikidata's, coverage), even if the page names remain at Cornell's.

There is also still a whole batch of country bird lists that follow Cornell for both names and taxonomy, frequently against the official lists and popular usage of those countries: these all need converting to IOC, or whichever authority is used in the country. - MPF (talk) 10:47, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

Proposed name changes

Based on the above table kindly provided by SchreiberBike, I propose that we start by changing the names of the following articles. These should (hopefully) be uncontentious as in each case the new name would align Wikipedia with all three world lists: the IOC (15.1), Clements/eBird (Oct 2024) and BirdLife/IUCN. In three cases the Wikipedia article currently has a scientific name.

Note that a spreadsheet comparing the IOC and Clements is available here.

• Bahian mouse-colored tapaculo -> Boa Nova tapaculo
• Western sirystes -> Choco sirystes
• Comoros blue vanga -> Comoro blue vanga
• Northern dark newtonia -> Dark newtonia
• Hood mockingbird -> Española mockingbird
• Southern giant hummingbird -> Giant hummingbird
• Red-tailed leaflove -> Leaf-love
• Cyanoramphus malherbi -> Malherbe's parakeet
• Malia grata -> Malia (bird)
• Eupsittula canicularis -> Orange-fronted parakeet
• Pale-chinned blue flycatcher -> Pale-chinned flycatcher
• Delalande's coua -> Snail-eating coua
• Blue-fronted amazon -> Turquoise-fronted amazon
• Woodwards's batis -> Woodwards' batis

If there are no objections, I'll ask an admin to make the moves. - Aa77zz (talk) Aa77zz (talk) 17:21, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

Mostly OK for me; the only one I'd query is the batis: as IOC has a general policy of possessives of names ending in —s being —s's (e.g. Ross's gull, Pallas's leaf warbler, etc.), is this change really correct, or an error in the latest version of IOC? Might be worth asking David Donsker about it. Of leaf-love, assuming that goes ahead, the current disambing page Leaflove will also need reworking. - MPF (talk) 17:54, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

The scientific name titles for Cyanoramphus malherbi and Eupsittula canicularis were the result of move discussions in 2023. They should not be moved back to the IOC vernacular names without starting a new discussion. Plantdrew (talk) 18:55, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't looked at the Talk pages. -Aa77zz (talk) 19:05, 25 March 2025 (UTC)