Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mixed martial arts

Bloody Elbow - not reliable source as of Sep 2024

@Papaursa, Ppt1973, Psycho-Krillin, PRehse, Gsfelipe94, Udar55, A.lanzetta, BEDofRAZORS666, Brusinggiant, Sdpdude9, Ticelon, Dwanyewest, Cassiopeia, Eerie Holiday, U, GameRCrom, Bkissin, Powderkegg, PabloLikesToWrestle, Ikamborden, KINGFEDORQc, MadjarMMA, NEDOCHAN, RafaelHP, FFCETT77, HeinzMaster, AddedUpdatePoster, Marty2Hotty, Damvj, SpyroeBM, Trippymoredd, Creatorial, KyleBYerrick, Nswix, and Rcpilot9:

Just to inform you that Bloody Elbow has been just updated as "NOT reliable source - "rough consensus in a September 2024 RfC that it is effectively a blog" from Wikipedia source guide". Also pls note that Essential sports (fans' perspective) and Sportskeeda's content are considered NOT reliable sources to be used in Wikipedia. Cassiopeia talk 03:30, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Does this apply also to their content on the SportSkeeda MMA Originals YouTube channel? For example one of the most respected MMA journalists James Lynch provides interviews to the channel and I would find it odd that explicit video interviews would not be considered reliable sources. Ticelon (talk) 05:18, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Ticelon Apply to all their sites including all social media, utube, X and etc. Cassiopeia talk 09:23, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for the information. That will negatively impact my research for the articles but I guess it is what it is. Ticelon (talk) 09:36, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Is this a retroactive thing or just from now on? With the previous management they put out good stuff but since the purchase it has turned into AI slop. HeinzMaster (talk) 17:07, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

HeinzMaster The RfC does not indicate if it is a retroactive or starting as per Sept 2024. I have not come across any info of source guide on your question either. I take is that we dont use Bloody Elbow from hereon but if anyone come across the source in any articles and remove them that would be justified as well. Cassiopeia talk 05:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Gsfelipe94 (talk) 23:15, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

👍 Powderkegg (talk) 16:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Fightmatrix.com's rankings and reliability

I have recently commented at some AfD discussions that have left me wondering about fightmatrix's reliability. For Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Murad Ramazanov (fighter) I found 4 fighters with the same name at fightmatrix with non-overlapping careers. I believe there is only 1 fighter but getting rid of a bunch of losses impacts his ranking and everyone else's. At Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jesse Taitano I found he jumped from #71 bantamweight to #8 flyweight immediately after a two round draw at a catchweight with the #1 flyweight. I like the idea of objective rankings, but they're not very useful if people can become ranked in divisions they're not fighting at and can just have their losses removed by creating multiple identities. I'm afraid to think how many other fighters have misleading records and rankings. Papaursa (talk) 16:10, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

None of the Murad Ramazanov's are the same person, that region of Russia has many guys who share the same last names or first names, it's like Viet people and the last name Nguyen. There are pictures of the other Ramazanov's in tapology and sherdog, showing it's not the same Murad in PFL, especially since he has a distinctive look.

[1]

[2]

[3]

Murad 1 and 2 are the same person, but not the PFL Murad, and Murad 3 is a completely different guy at a different weight class

Regarding the Jesse Taitano stuff, Flyweight used to be basically nonexistent back in the 2000s. It was just a thing in Japan fora very small group of fighters. Basically akin to Men's Strawweight today, how many 115 men's fights do you see. Do I think Jesse Taitano should warranted as having a page, not really, but the sport is relatively new so having rankings that go back to those days makes it so you get weird cases like this. HeinzMaster (talk) 16:46, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

HeinzMaster Thank you for the information. I still think it was interesting how the various Murads had no overlap in the dates of their fighting careers. I know there were few flyweights (and even fewer strawweights) back then (although not rare in Asia), but the fightmatrix methodology still seems questionable to me. I also never heard of a scheduled two round pro fight, but that's another issue. Getting clarity was the reason I posted here (live and learn). I was just surprised to look at two MMA fighters and find noticeable issues at fightmatrix for both of them. Papaursa (talk) 20:28, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Japan does 2 round MMA fights to this day, mostly only for WMMA bouts. Look up any DEEP Jewels event for example. But Fight Matrix gets it's data from Sherdog and Tapology by skimming their data. It's only as accurate as the two big record keeping sources are and for small events and early MMA some weirdness might occur.

However Fight Matrix is the best we have and Sherdog/Tapology are the best record keeping sources we have. HeinzMaster (talk) 11:10, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Agree with HeinzMaster take on his comments above. Cassiopeia talk 05:40, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

There is no such thing as 'brabo choking' an unclothed opponent

Every single instance on this Wikipedia of a page claiming that someone was 'brabo choked' in a no-gi or unclothed MMA/grappling contest is misinformation.

It is undisputed what a brabo choke is. It is when you deploy an arm-triangle of sorts without having to secure the choking arm because you are ABLE TO GRAB SOMEONE'S CLOTHING with your hand in lieu of having to grab your other arm.

The entire history of this move, who named it, who popularized it, what it is, how it's performed etc is well documented and there is no dispute whatsoever that this is a choke wherein you grab someone's clothing.

It is impossible to 'brabo choke' a nude/topless opponent.

Regardless of y'alls insistence on using Sherdog to mediate bickering between Methods of victory this is a clear exception to be made since it is antithetical to the entire WikiProject to purposefully keep inaccurate information because of a few users' originally-well-meaning policy.

The user Cassiopeia has been trying to dodge the fact of the matter as best they can to avoid having to admit that it is indeed impossible to 'brabo choke' anyone in e.g. the UFC and that they are therefore insisting on keeping misinformation even though ALL OTHER SOURCES, incredibly reputable reliable sources, including independent regulatory bodies, fight organizations, news media and such accurately identify these chokes as e.g. D'Arce chokes. Now some other user (Nswix) has also started vandalizing Wikipedia by reverting my incredibly well-sourced and undisputably accurate edits that correct misinformation.

I would greatly appreciate it if you could all just take a deep breath, take ten seconds and see that I'm right, and agree to listen to the entire world of fighting and grappling instead of the only place that claims these are 'brabo chokes' (Sherdog). Stosseled (talk) 02:51, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Please refrain from changing sourced information until a consensus is reached (again I should add) Nswix (talk) 03:25, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

REKhamzat Chimaev -

4 things to understand in Wikipedia which I have explain to Stosseled many times in they talk page.

(31) if you have already found independent, reliable source about that specific fight's fight method, then add it in. (2) Wikipedia is NOT about truth or accuracy of the info - see Wikipedia:But it's true! but IT IS ABOUT VERIFICATION and verification is the core policy of Wikipedia. (3) all private companies, social media, org, edu and gov sites are considered not reliable sources. The source you provided (boxing.nv.gov) is from gov sites for such it is considered not reliable. Cassiopeia talk 01:51, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Help with Research Regarding Fighter Articles

I have been working on articles for Alex "El Toro" Andrade and Grant Neal for a while now. I started them because it was suggested in this WP that they were notable fighters with no articles written about about them. However, my work has stagnated because of the lack of information about these fighters, which has led to my drafts being rejected. I will leave said drafts here and would be very thankful if additional information could be added or for any guidance regarding possible places to continue my research on. Here are the drafts:

Draft: Alex Andrade (American mixed martial artist)

Draft: Grant Neal HC226 (talk) 18:51, 20 December 2024 (UTC)