Talk:16th Avenue Tiled Steps

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 09:03, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

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The 16th Avenue Tiled Steps from the bottom

• ... that with 163 steps, the 16th Avenue Tiled Steps (pictured) claims to be the world's largest mosaic staircase? Source: https://www.fodors.com/news/photos/the-20-most-incredible-staircases-in-the-world
  • Reviewed:

Created by DarkNight0917 (talk). Self-nominated at 03:58, 23 May 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/16th Avenue Tiled Steps; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• I will review. Cielquiparle (talk) 02:21, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Nice addition to Wikipedia content on San Francisco, staircases, and public artwork. New enough (submitted within one day of creation); long enough (currently at ~2262 characters); neutrally written; Earwig says copyvio unlikely. Appears to cite appropriate sources, although I would point out at least two references are missing the name of the publication, one of which is ABC7 and should be archived immediately due to the short lifespan of their links. Also, I'm never quite sure what to make of travel blogs (e.g. McCool Travel and California Through My Lens), especially when it comes to local details which can be difficult to find elsewhere. My advice is to cite them sparingly and only if you absolutely have to, and try to replace them with sources with higher RS scores if you can; you could probably move one or two of those to "External links" if you think they provide value to readers. QPQ review is still pending. Finally, with regard to the hook and the corresponding claim in the article text: Is the Tiled Steps project really claiming that it is the world's largest mosaic staircase? Or is it other people who are making that claim? I know this is extremely picky, but the "claims/claiming" wording seems like it may not be quite right in both the hook and the article. Cielquiparle (talk) 03:02, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I added the publication names for the references. ABC7 is unable to be archived as Internet Archive hasn't archived it yet. Also, for the hook, would replacing "claims to" with "may" (making it "... that with 163 steps, the 16th Avenue Tiled Steps may be the world's largest mosaic staircase?") be better than before? Lastly, when you say "QPQ review is still pending." would you mean that you are seeking a QPQ review from me? Or are you referring to your own review? (this is the first article I have ever nominated) DarkNight0917 (talk) 03:54, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@DarkNight0917: The picture you currently have is good, but hard to see at 140px (the main page resolution), so I suggest we use this cropped version, because the flowers on the sides are not important to the image.

Changed image. DarkNight0917 (talk) 00:30, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Amending review. QPQ review is not required, as this is the nominator's first DYK submission. The new photo accompanying the hook is a cropped version of an image which has been on Commons since 2015 with a CC BY 3.0 license. (Thanks to PalauanLibertarian who did not sign their comment above.) I've gone ahead and added the words "(pictured)" to the original hook. However, the issue remains with the hook wording. A Google search suggests that there probably aren't any other mosaic staircases in the world with more than 163 steps, and it seems most sources agree that the "world's largest" claim is likely true...with a few saying it's "possibly" the world's largest mosaic staircase just in case. In the interest of trying to get this DYK nomination approved in as few steps as possible, I'm going to go ahead and propose a bunch of alternative wordings, and leave it to another reviewer to weigh in and give final approval. So some possibilities for qualifiers are:

• ALT0a: ... that with 163 steps, the 16th Avenue Tiled Steps (pictured) may be the world's largest mosaic staircase?
• ALT0b: ... that with 163 steps, the 16th Avenue Tiled Steps (pictured) is possibly the world's largest mosaic staircase?
• ALT0c: ... that with 163 steps, the 16th Avenue Tiled Steps is possibly the world's largest mosaic staircase, according to Fodor's Travel?
• ALT0d: ... that with 163 steps, the 16th Avenue Tiled Steps (pictured) is most likely the world's largest mosaic staircase?

Personally leaning toward ALT0c, but leaving this to another reviewer to comment/approve a hook, or suggest further hooks. Cielquiparle (talk) 03:36, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

• --evrik ^(talk) 01:52, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  The image should not go on the Main Page, since it depicts an artwork, and freedom of panorama does not apply in the US. See commons:COM:FOP US. Edge3 (talk) 02:52, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

  Approved for use without image only. Cielquiparle (talk) 03:03, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

  evrik, Cielquiparle, DarkNight0917 – I think that we should either rely on a source or not. If you guys aren't 100% comfortable citing a source, find another source or another claim. Weaseling out of certainty isn't a great look for the Main Page. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 07:14, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  @Theleekycauldron and Evrik: In that case, I'm removing the "strike" against ALT0c for now, as well as the word "pictured". Cielquiparle (talk) 07:31, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Let's remove some of the hedging, then:

  • ALT0e: ... that, according to Fodor's Travel, the 16th Avenue Tiled Steps is the world's largest mosaic staircase?

  I have, however, just notability-tagged the article. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 07:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  After a quick BEFORE search, it does seem that this article is notable, but the state of the article's sourcing ain't fantastic. Pretty much every source (with the exception of ABC7, which is local news, and Fodor's, which is a publishing house) is a travel blog, which doesn't come with significant editorial oversight and isn't reliable. Or it's the official website, which shouldn't be overused per WP:ABOUTSELF. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 07:41, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

• For the subject, a stairway, I thought everything was fine. I also thought this was funny and whimsical. We are not the commons, so I make no judgement on the image. --evrik ^(talk) 15:55, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

DarkNight0917, any plans to address the issues raised? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 22:35, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

I've added more sources from news sources, but I don't know if that's enough. DarkNight0917 (talk) 22:55, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

@DarkNight0917: perhaps replacing the rest of the travel blog sources would do the trick. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 22:56, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Removed all of the travel blog sources. DarkNight0917 (talk) 23:10, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

That's great, DarkNight0917. Thanks for doing that. Cielquiparle (talk) 02:57, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

@DarkNight0917 and Cielquiparle: still seeing Arch20, San Francisco Stairways, and The Bold Italic? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 22:13, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Done. DarkNight0917 (talk) 22:34, 11 July 2023 (UTC)