Talk:1983 Madrilenian regional election

Disagreement

How is "unnecessary" to indicate the members of a legislative chamber elected in a election whose purpose is to elect them? This is a textbook JERK move or a deep lack of comprehension of what the election is about (or rather both). Aside from the former, it is not "broken" (another jerk assessment). It is collapsed.--Asqueladd (talk) 18:24, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Notes

Just as unnecessary as this reply from you which revolves mainly on a direct personal attack.

Firstly, I do not see the usefulness of an inmensely long list with mostly unknown people (of these, just a handful had a link, and even in this, most of these had to resort to links from the Spanish wikipedia). You can surely please explain that. I am sure you would know about notability as a requisite for information to be included in Wikipedia, yes? Lists must fulfill some purpose, none of which seems to be appliable here.

Secondly, the current design of the "collapse" function and the table's design meant that it looked broken when collapsed, yes. Or, at least, it looked immensely weird.

Finally, I would commend you to, at least, read the essays you link yourself. I am sure you may think I am a jerk, but focusing on the individual and not on content is not the most productive way to accomplish something positive. This, if what you wish is to seek a productive solution, and not to just point out a personal frustration because of your edit being reverted by someone else. Impru20^talk 18:54, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

User:Impru20: Every member of a regional parliament (subdivisions of 1st order) is presumed to be notable to have its own article in en:wikipedia. It's pretty basic stuff anybody extensively editing about politics here should know about:

Politicians and judges who have held international, national or sub-national (statewide/provincewide) office, and members or former members of a national, state or provincial legislature. This also applies to persons who have been elected to such offices but have not yet assumed them

— Wikipedia:Notability (people).

It's at the very least just as enciclopedic as gathering polling data into tables, et. al.

Additionally it's easy to think that if the elected MPS are not mentioned anywhere, it's more difficult to create these entries, maybe being a factor in the paltry number of entries of (presumably notable) mps created you mention about. A negative feedback loop.--Asqueladd (talk) 17:53, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

WP:NPOL also says that "Just being an elected local official, or an unelected candidate for political office, does not guarantee notability, although such people can still be notable if they meet the primary notability criterion of "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject of the article". Most of these people would not be notable as per this. Impru20^talk 18:01, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Am I missing something here? We are talking about elected candidates to a regional parliament, not about elected local politicians nor about unelected candidates (and I haven't entered yet that these are criteria for meriting an standalone article, not for just mentioning them somewhere).--Asqueladd (talk) 18:05, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

The notability criteria applies to lists too, as I pointed out the other day. I understood that the "significant coverage" requirement applied generally (i.e. that merely being an elected politician did not turn someone into a notable figure). However, if it applies just to local figures, then you may have a point and the list may be in. Nonetheless, I think the layout of the list's table could be vastly improved. Impru20^talk 18:11, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Do you mind if I ask to third parties if regional mps are presumed to be notable in here? I really think this was rather straightforward. Regarding the layout I did not pretend to be intrusive. It could be split into two columns, although the issuing by order of election (the system the source uses) has the charm of replicating how the d'Hont counting goes.--Asqueladd (talk) 18:13, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

I had doubts from the beginning because I am not used to see such tables of elected MPs in regional elections elsewhere (I think I've only seen it for some elections that use FPTP, and it may be because the figure of the person has an increased relevancy in those). If you wish to ask third parties to seek out their opinion, feel free to do so. The more input, the better.

On the layout, I think it would be best to figure some way to leave it uncollapsed (collapsed tables are a real headache nowadays). And maybe having a separate column for each party so that it does not look mixed up? I think this could be discussed. Impru20^talk 18:21, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Plus, I have just thought that we would have to add the full list of candidates for parties that won seats. Because as you surely will know, the number of elected legislators is not limited to those elected at election day, but also extends to those who access office as a result of the resignation/death/vacancy of elected MPs. Impru20^talk 18:35, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

@Impru20:: regarding general notability, I've asked for the opinion of @Valenciano: and @Maswimelleu:.--Asqueladd (talk) 18:46, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Regarding the later, yes, but I don't think we should deal (particularly not on principle) with vacancies in the election entry, but potentially in the article about the legislative term, or subsidiarily in the article of the constituency (not the case for elections to the Assembly of Madrid, as it's a single district election).--Asqueladd (talk) 18:49, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Some election articles deal with this issue by creating a stand-alone article for the list of elected MPs which include all MPs throughout the term. This may be another possibility. Specially seeing that I don't think articles about the legislative terms are going to be created anytime soon (I've seen it as a more standard practice in the Spanish wiki, but it is quite rare for such articles to exist in the English wiki even for national elections). Impru20^talk 18:53, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

I don't think there's anything wrong with having a collapsed or uncollapsed table of all MPs elected in this election, but if you do that then you're creating a precedent to do it for all Spanish regional elections. Is that a constructive use of time on the Wiki and how useful will it be to the reader? The members of the legislature probably are notable automatically but that doesn't automatically require us to make an article about them if doing so would be an unproductive time sink. I am sure there are thousands of notable people without Wikipedia articles, after all. I sometimes add lists of members to municipal/regional councils, with one example being Thurrock Council. A list here would be slightly less interesting if there aren't electoral divisions/constituencies, but might still be useful in collapsed form. Whilst I can see why collapsed tables look a but ugly from a formatting perspective, I think it'd be better than a long list taking up the majority of space in the article. Maswimelleu (talk) 08:50, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

A collapsed list would be fine. The whole point of the election is to elect these people, so not naming them seems strange. Also, regarding WP:NPOL, the local officials referred to there are members of municipal councils. So members of Madrid city council are not automatically presumed notable, whereas members of the Madrid regional assembly are. Valenciano (talk) 13:58, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

I've recovered the table (some tweaks, but roughly the same, collapsed). I intend to do the same for the next elections to the Assembly (although I still don't know if the source follows the same sorting or it splits elected legislators per party list). I will give thoughts to alternative formatting and sorting (that is, the format is still very much tentative). It may be also discussed if the best location for the table is an standalone section or grouped with other tables in the results section (I tentatively lean towards the former). Hopefully we can come up with a standard format for the future (at least for this particular set of elections to the Assembly of Madrid).--Asqueladd (talk) 11:07, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Ok, so I have made some formatting tweaks to the table (which are not actually major ones, aside from the sorting function which I think would be useful for grouping elected legislators from a same list together). I think the format is good for now. However, given the exposed arguments it is obvious this would eventually extend to other regional elections as well, including those in communities with several provinces (which could possibly make the format to be given some second thoughts if needed). Impru20^talk 11:54, 10 July 2018 (UTC)