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Frequently asked questions; please read before posting

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These questions arise frequently on the talk page concerning Ahmadiyya.

Why does this page call the Ahmadiyya community Muslims?

Wikipedia adheres to a neutral point of view. That means that we rely on the information available in reliable, independent, secondary sources, which identify Ahmadiyya as a branch of Islam. The Ahmadiyya community's beliefs, like Islam, are based on the Six articles of Islamic Faith and the Five Pillars of Islam. Like all Muslims, Ahmadis accept the Quran as their holy text, face the Kaaba during prayer, follow the sunnah, and accept the authority of the ahadith.

Two arguments against the identification of Ahmadiyya as a branch of Islam are brought up repeatedly. One is that, according to some Muslims, Ahmadiyya has critical differences that put it outside of Islam. This is not relevant here; we stick with what reliable, secondary sources say just as we do when discussing the Nation of Islam, Messianic Jews, Won Buddhism, or any other controversial religion, and we avoid censorship. The second is that the government of Pakistan has declared that Ahmadis are not Muslims. That is not relevant here. The government of Pakistan does not influence Wikipedia policy. Both of these concerns are discussed in the article.

Why was my request or comment removed?

Because of the frequency of meritless and disruptive requests, any further requests to censor the page by removing the terms Muslim or Islam, unless the request complies with all relevant Wikipedia guidelines, including WP:Reliable sources, will be deleted without discussion. Any further requests to insert words such as Kafir or Qadiyani, or to rename the article to Qadianism, will also be deleted without discussion.


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Ahmadiya community are not Muslim

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Discussion closed. Read the FAQ
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

As ahmadiya community called themselves muslim to hijack islam, while its actually not islam, thats is why they cant be called "Muslim". Hafiz usama qureshi (talk) 11:27, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Hafiz usama qureshi There is established, clear consensus that Ahmadiyya are Muslims, and this article, as well as the rest of Wikipedia, will continue to use that wording. —C.Fred (talk) 11:29, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"There is established, clear consensus" from whom ? Non muslims ? How is it relevant then ? Who should have authority to say what is compatible with Islam creed and what is not ? Wikipedia ? Non muslims ? Everyone movement can identify as muslim and it is true ? So tomorrow some buddhist says buddhism is a branch of Islam and it becomes true ?
Qadianis do not meet the basic requirements for claiming being a part of Islam. It is a verifiable fact.
Just a sneak peek: https://www.answering-ahmadiyya.org/11-reasons-why-ahmadis-are-not-muslim/
That's the problem with Wikipedia and the reason why I never donated. When it comes to hard science (math, physics, geography and such) it is reliable.
When it comes to soft knowledge (geopolitics, wars, economy-finance, history, philosophy, religions, theories of hard sciences) it becomes pure propaganda by some admins who just use the brand name of Wikipedia to assert an opinion as a fact.
Wikipedia should be split in 2 independant organisations. TheOtherPointOfView (talk) 19:44, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can use the same logic about Shia, sufies, salafies and athari
I mean some salafies consider all other sections non muslims
and yes they have articles in internet that say
“why athari not a Muslim “
”why Shia not a Muslim “
and so on 176.29.237.186 (talk) 13:39, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@176.29.237.186 no you cannot use that argument because it's a false equivalency due to the fact that Qadiyanis or Ahmadiyyas are considered by every Muslim sect to be non-Muslim. AlKarachwi (talk) 23:06, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your circular logic is irrelevant. But also, your or any other editor's reasoning is irrelevant. Read the FAQ to see why you have zero chance of having your proposal accepted. DMacks (talk) 23:15, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't matter. Ahmadis consider themselves Muslims. You just gotta deal with it. 178.120.48.199 (talk) 01:09, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
they dont belive in quran nor the sunnah they dont face makkah they fave qadiyan they allow alcohol they belive allah fasts sleeps have intercourse April 1974), a major conference was held by the Muslim World League in Makkah, which was attended by representatives of Muslim organizations from around the world. This conference announced that this sect is Kaafir and is beyond the pale of Islam, and told Muslims to resist its dangers and not to cooperate with the Qadianis or bury their dead in Muslim graveyards. Mirza thinks he is prophet after muhammad saw but Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowlege of all things 33:40 we rely on islanic sources not disbeliver sources and someone pointed out that theres arguments against salafis but salafis doesn't have kufr beliefs.
Mirza thinks he is son of allah
In 1901 Ghulam declared, "by Allah in Whose grip is my soul it is He Who commissioned me and named me a prophet" and he declared that Allah gave him "three hundred thousand". Note that Allah's true messengers and prophets received their assignment suddenly not step-wise like Ghulam. By Ghulam's own declarations, now he became a Kaafir and a liar. (Abstract from QADIYANIAT, AN ANALYTICAL SURVEY, by Ehsan Ilahi Zaheer
Read https://islamqa.info/en/answers/4060/qadianiyyah-in-the-light-of-islam
For more info about their disbelief this is sourced from quran and sunnah
If some disbelivers write here "no they are muslims" then there wrong its not you who decide it is allah in quran and sunnah not anyone who calls himself muslim is one 94.191.136.18 (talk) 09:50, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All things in faq are wrong they dont and send me the "independent resarch" send me quran and sunnah not some disbeliver sources 94.191.136.18 (talk) 09:53, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is your right to have that belief, IP user. However, Wikipedia's policies and guidelines are not based on individual beliefs nor on the writings of any religious authorities or bodies. The FAQ is correct from the standpoint of Wikipedia policy. --bonadea contributions talk 10:07, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nonono from where the disbelievers actually its a consensus among the scholars of islan that they are apostates 1974 in makkah scholars concluded qadyanis are kaafir 94.191.136.18 (talk) 10:51, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2023

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Remove all Islam and Muslim the Ahmadiyya community are not Muslim according to Pakistan government 71.241.206.50 (talk) 11:18, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Wikipedia is not a mouthpiece or sectarian propaganda arm of the Pakistani government. DMacks (talk) 11:29, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What any govt. says doesn't matter. We can't term the Ahmadis non-Muslims just because the Pakistani govt. thinks that, no more than we can call the Bahá'í Faith a heresy as per the Iranian govt.; that's NPOV violation. ― Ö S M A N  (talk · contribs) 09:46, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Read my comment above. On what basis are you proving they are muslims ? Just because they say so ? So if I say I am a rabbit it becomes true ? We need some critical mind at least for once. TheOtherPointOfView (talk) 19:46, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody is calling themselves a rabbit, and you are correct- Wikipedia does not try to police religious groups' identities. PepperBeast (talk) 20:32, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Then there is a way to fix that if Wikipedia wants to REALLY avoid conflict and not doing propaganda for one side or the other (which is not being objective because objectively Qadianis are not muslims whether you like it or not based on verifiable facts from both creeds that are mutually exclusive, enumerated in the link above):
"Qadianis" claim to be a new recent branch of Islam but the canonical mainstream branches of Islam reject this claim and consider them as a whole other different religion that is however inspired by and derived from Islam. (Same situation as sikhism)
Voila. You actually reflect the reality with a sentence like that. Instead of claiming falsehood. Please stop the bs and step up the game. Wikipedia is not your truth for God sake. (I am talking generally to all admins that keep doing propaganda for the past 15 years). TheOtherPointOfView (talk) 23:10, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That information is already in the article. PepperBeast (talk) 23:50, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
“ (Same situation as sikhism)”
sikhim never consider themselves Muslims 176.29.237.186 (talk) 13:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2024

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Please add at the end of third paragraph in the introduction. It is noted that Ahmadiyya sect is not considered Muslim according to the constitution of Pakistan, and hundreds of court decisions and parliament resolutions. 97% of Muslims in Pakistan feel hurt when Ahmadiyya are called Muslims. Nabeelan (talk) 03:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: seems undue weight for the introduction, already mentioned in the #Persecution section. Also, just no to adding "97% of Muslims in Pakistan feel hurt when Ahmadiyya are called Muslims." Cannolis (talk) 03:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 27 January 2025

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Ahmadiyya → Ahmadiyya Islam – According to the same reliable sources cited in the article, Ahmadi Muslims have been persecuted by Sunnis since 1947 in Pakistan and elsewhere in the Muslim world, but the same sources also refer to the Ahmadiyya branch of Islam as the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam (both official names for the religion). Moreover, due to the same religious persecution against them, some people (both readers and editors) discuss about whether Ahmadi Muslims are Muslims or not; they are, obviously, because Ahmadiyya Islam is a denomination of Islam according to academics of Islamic studies and religion scholars,[1][2][3] therefore the title should be simply changed to Ahmadiyya Islam. GenoV84 (talk) 19:46, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi GenoV84, I don't quite follow your reasoning here. Because readers and editors discuss whether or not Ahmadiyya is part of Islam it should be moved to Ahmadiyya Islam? Those discussions happen, whether or not the title is Ahmadiyya or Ahmadiyya Islam. Maybe I am not understanding you correctly, but that is not a reason to move. I'll opposse (for now, at least). soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 20:41, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Soetermans, I understand your point of view but the current title of this article is still incorrect; according to the cited sources, Ahmadiyya alone is not the official name of the religion.[1][2][3] GenoV84 (talk) 20:49, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Therealbey (talk) 21:38, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ a b Friedmann, Yohanan (2011). "The Ahmadiyyah Movement". Oxford Bibliographies. Archived from the original on 14 December 2019. Retrieved 4 January 2019. The Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam is a modern Muslim messianic movement. It was founded in 1889 in the Indian province of Punjab by Ghulam Ahmad (b. c. 1835–d. 1908). Having been accused of rejecting the Muslim dogma asserting the finality of Muhammad's prophethood, the movement aroused the fierce opposition of the Sunni mainstream. During the period of British rule in India, the controversy was merely a doctrinal dispute between private individuals or voluntary organizations, but after most Ahmadis moved in 1947 to the professedly Islamic state of Pakistan, the issue was transformed into a major constitutional problem. The Sunni Muslim mainstream demanded the formal exclusion of the Ahmadis from the Muslim fold. This objective was attained in 1974: against the fierce opposition of the Ahmadis, the Pakistani parliament adopted a constitutional amendment declaring them non-Muslims. In 1984, in the framework of Ziya al-Haqq's Islamization trend in Pakistan, presidential Ordinance XX of 1984 transformed the religious observance of the Ahmadis into a criminal offense, punishable by three years of imprisonment. The ordinance subsequently became an instrument of choice for the harassment and judicial persecution of the Ahmadi community. Following its promulgation, the headquarters of the Qadiyani branch of the Ahmadi movement moved from Rabwa, Pakistan, to London.
  2. ^ a b Gualtieri, Antonio R. (1989). Conscience and Coercion: Ahmadi Muslims and orthodoxy in Pakistan. Guernica Editions. p. 21–22. ISBN 978-0-920717-41-7.
  3. ^ a b "Ahmadiyya Muslim Community – An Overview". Alislam.org. Archived from the original on 16 March 2015. Retrieved 14 November 2012. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community are Muslims who believe in the Messiah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (peace be on him) (1835-1908) of Qadian. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad founded the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in 1889 as a revival movement within Islam, emphasizing its essential teachings of peace, love, justice, and sanctity of life. Today, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the world's largest Islamic community under one Divinely appointed leader, His Holiness, Mirza Masroor Ahmad (may Allah be his Helper) (b. 1950). The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community spans over 200 nations with membership exceeding tens of millions.
What is the WP:COMMONNAME? What a religion calls itself might be the preferred name, but not always the most common one. That being said, I did notice Sunni Islam and Shia Islam are titled as such, but denominations such as Isma'ilism and Zaydism use the suffix -ism and not Ismaili Islam or Zaydi Islam, while Ibadi Islam is called such, while the obscure Najdat are treated as a group. We should be consistent though... Curious! soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 21:03, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I thoroughly agree! WP:TITLECON should be applied to each one of these denominations of Islam on Wikipedia, and this article makes no exception. GenoV84 (talk) 21:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@GenoV84 and @Soetermans I think you guys didn't read WP:TITLECON it clearly mentions "Therefore, we generally use the titles that are the most common and recognizable names, even if they are inconsistent" also read WP:COMMONNAMES. Therealbey (talk) 21:45, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not assume whether or not I, or GenoV24 or anyone else for that matter, has not read a guideline when it is cited. It is uncivil and not helping the discussion. Take a good look at your talk page please, before you start casting stones. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 04:33, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I do agree that it is inconsistent that the article on Ahmadiyya Islam is simply Ahmadiyya, while articles relating to other sects typically have Sect + Islam. HolyArtThou (talk) 00:24, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The three main denominations within Islam are Sunni Islam, Shia Islam and Ibadi Islam. There are various branches within these three denominations.
Furthermore, Ahmediyya is a religious movement, not a denomination. The wikipedia page title of Mormon religious movement is "Mormonism", not "Mormon christianity".
The proposed title is totally inconsistent with the page titles of other religious movements. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 17:38, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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