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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Change title to "genocide of Ukrainians in the Russo-Ukrainian War" and delete "allegations of." Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine, for proof look at the sources that are already on this page and look at the news. Wikipedia needs to be consistent in its use of the word "genocide." Wikipedia has recognized that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, so this page title about Ukraine needs updating. Electronicium2 (talk) 01:05, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We need to be honest and call what Russia is doing to Ukraine a genocide. All the evidence for genocide is already cited on this page. Nothing new needs to be added. Experts in the subject are calling it genocide. Remove "allegations" from title. Electronicium2 (talk) 14:41, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Title should be changed
Change title to "genocide of Ukrainians in the Russo-Ukrainian War" and delete "allegations of." Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine. We need to be honest and call what Russia is doing to Ukraine a genocide. All the evidence for genocide is already cited on this page. Nothing new needs to be added. Experts in the subject are calling it genocide.:
Agreed. It makes absolutely no sense given how low the bar was set for approving that term for Gaza on here, despite the very unique situation going on in Gaza with plain-clothes enemies, whom use civilian infrastructure, not military bases/outposts and that has to be fought within an extremely dense city filled with civilians and winding underground tunnels, a situation with nothing to really compare to in history to be making these determinations about intent.
It's much easier to argue Gaza is just a "war" than it is to argue Russia is not committing genocide against Ukraine by invading it completely unprovoked to overthrow it and absorb it into Russia. Over 100,000 Ukrainians have likely been killed at this point.
The people refusing to accept this change need to take a step back and recognize the bias they're enforcing here, otherwise they should be going and revoking that claim in the Gaza-related articles.
What other articles get titled are not a good justification. If you wish to rename the article, you will need to start a RM, though I would suggest before doing that, incorporating the academic sources in "Further reading" into the article, as these provide assessment by specialists in the field and are published in some of the best RS available. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 16:03, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
i believe a section about counterarguments or points which go against the connotation of 'Genocide' should be added to ensure some extra neutrality. civilian casualty numbers have flatlined after 2022 due to the near-complete evacuation of all of the towns and cities being fought over, casualty ratios (russia has killed 50-80 Ukranian Soldiers per Ukranian Civilian, comparing to gaza israel has killed 7-9 gazan civilians per hamas member), semantics between a group of war crimes done by russia and a full-scale genocide (the intent part that covers this has lots of opinion pieces and not factual evidence to prove intent), and even reports of human shields. i know it is hard to be neutral in these topics (specially when most people here are from the west), but neutrality is the point of wikipedia. MerluchWK (talk) 19:44, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The truth is always neutral. Russia is committing genocide against Ukrainians and that is the truth, so it is a neutral thing to say. Counterarguments that contradict the truth are by definition lies and do not belong on Wikipedia. Electronicium2 (talk) 21:49, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the 