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I've spent some time trying to track down references for Braun's but not having much luck. News searches mostly return help-wanted ads placed by Braun's except for a handful of local mentions related to a school convocation where Cynthia spoke. Most industry publication mentions of Braun's are related to company/supplier announcements or Braun's SmartWay participation and other environmental initiatives. That's laudable but even there I can't find many references. At this point, I've cited a few primary sources for basic company facts plus everything I can find in terms of secondary sources and still don't feel we're close to the "reliable secondary sources" goal. -- DatraxMada (talk) 14:02, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A 2015 accident involving a Braun's truck in New York, NY that killed a pedestrian has been added and removed several times from the History section. Plus, an EPA reference URL was swapped for the URL of a news article on this event. Whether or not any of this activity was in bad faith, the trucking company of the vehicle involved appears incidental and, though undeniably tragic, I'm not convinced of the notability of the event. It does appear that this incident was the source of two of the very few independent secondary sources that even mention Braun's (a [New York Post article] and a [New York Daily News article]). But, again, these seem to be incidental mentions. If there were sources that in some way related specifically to Braun's involvement (e.g. if a contributing cause was found to be a Braun's operational issue) I'd feel differently but this does not appear to be the case (from the Post article: "The driver, who has no infringements on his license, remained at the scene, police said. No criminality was suspected, sources said." and from the Daily News article: "The driver had the right of way. He remained at the scene and was not charged. ... No criminality was suspected."). If this event is re-added I highly recommend it go in an "Accidents and incidents" section vs. History. -- DatraxMada (talk) 14:49, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi and sorry for reverting you before checking the talk page as I should have. Thanks for your thorough analysis of the matter at hand. I think this incident is very highly relevant and would remind you that NYPD often says "no criminality" as a matter of course, but still, an important note to have on the article. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 22:45, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Dreameditsbrooklyn I appreciate the response. As I noted above, I entirely agree that this is tragic. Some of the details in the source articles are chilling.
My concerns are primarily:
1. Notability of the incident especially as it relates to Braun's. I was unable to find any sources that indicated any responsibility on Braun's itself. Doesn't mean there wasn't, but we're not asked to draw conclusions without sources. See United Parcel Service#Controversies, for example. There we have reliable sources discussing that UPS policies are causing safety issues. I didn't see any similar sources in this case. If there were any, I would strongly support including this incident.
2. Maintaining appropriate balance. Braun's is a brief article (IMO of marginal notability already given that of 11 sources 2 barely mention Braun's and are related to this incident and nearly all others are press releases or equivalent) so including this item felt like it wasn't in line with the balance we're asked to strive for in WP:BALASP.
As you know, this incident has been deleted and restored previously but, as you noted, stood for 5 years until I came along. Given this fact, I'm not going to be removing this again unless there's consensus from others here. DatraxMada (talk) 23:14, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I totally understand your position here. I guess what stands out to me as when I think of general interest use of wikipedia, people would find that note about the incident most useful. If a company hires people who end up killing others with their vehicles, I think that is notable. I feel like the 65 character so note I added to the article regarding this fatality is probably the most interesting aspect of the article for many users of wikipedia. Given all this, I appreciate your deference with regards to the edit and will monitor as well this talk page for future discussion. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 23:22, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
