Talk:CSA 4-Day Domestic Series
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Former provincial era teams
[edit]Hi, I'm rather confused by the teams listed in the former provincial teams section. I spotted the following things:
- The history section says that in the 1990s Northern Transvaal became Northerns and Eastern Transvaal became Easterns. Neither Northerns nor Easterns are listed. Other teams who changed names have both incarnations listed (more on this below).
- There's no mention of Boland, despite their 1980 introduction being mentioned in the seasons table. Is that because they were introduced in the Bowl? Their team article says they became an "A-Province" in 1994, although that's not mentioned in the seasons table. If you include Northerns/Easterns/Boland, that makes for the 11 teams that were franchised in 2004.
- There's also no mention of Northern Transvaal B (1981), Orange Free State B (1989), Border B, Boland B and Zimbabwe Board XI (1993), Griqualand West B (1998), all of whom are listed as being introduced in the seasons table. Again, is that because they just competed in the Bowl?
- When a team is renamed, the end date overlaps - i.e. Transvaal (1889–90 to 1997–98) becoming Gauteng (1997–98 to 2004–05). Assuming the name change occurred for the start of the 1997–98 season, surely Transvaal's end date should be 1996–97? All this also applies to every team's end date being 2004–05 rather than 2003–04.
- The first seasons of Eastern/Western Transvaal are listed as 1991–91 and Northern Transvaal 1971–71. This presumably should be 1991–92 and 1971–72? Similarly, Griqualand West's first season is listed as 1892–92 rather 1892–93
- There's use of both hyphens and ndashes for date spans - should just be the latter.
Team table V1
[edit]I'd also say that the table is quite confusing generally, listing teams multiple times with different names, and then having the B teams as well. I'd consider something like this:
| Team | Years | Former names | B teams |
|---|---|---|---|
| Boland | 1980-81 to 2004–05 | ||
| Border | 1903-04 to 2004–05 | ||
| Eastern Province | 1893-94 to 2004–05 | Eastern Province B (1977-78 to 2004–05) | |
| Easterns | 1995–96 to 2004–05 | Eastern Transvaal (1991-91 to 1995–96) | |
| Free State | 1995-96 to 2004–05 | Orange Free State (1897-98 to 1995–96) | |
| Gauteng | 1997-98 to 2004–05 | Transvaal (1889-90 to 1997–98) | Transvaal B (1959-60 to 1997-98) |
| Griqualand West | 1892-92 to 2004–05 | Kimberley (1889-90 to 1892–93) | |
| KwaZulu-Natal | 1998-99 to 2004-05 | Natal (1893-94 to 1998–99) | Natal B (1965-66 to 1998-99) |
| Northerns | 1997-98 to 2004–05 | Northern Transvaal (1971-71 to 1997-98) North Eastern Transvaal (1937-38 to 1971–72) |
|
| North West | 1996-97 to 2004–05 | Western Transvaal (1991-91 to 1996–97) | |
| Rhodesia | 1904–05, 1929–30, 1931–32, 1946–47 to 1979–80 | Rhodesia B (1977-78 to 1979–80) | |
| South Western Districts | 1904–05 | ||
| Western Province | 1892-93 to 2004–05 | Western Province B (1975-76 to 2004–05) |
Note: For this I've added in Boland/Northerns/Easterns but not any of the missing B teams mentioned above to save time.
Team table V2
[edit]And this is another version that I prefer, amended to use the start date of the team rather than imply renamed teams are wholly new incarnations. And I've tidied up the season overlaps as suggested above.
| Team | First season | Last season | Former names | B teams |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Boland | 1980–81 | 2003–04 | ||
| Border | 1903–04 | 2003–04 | ||
| Eastern Province | 1893–94 | 2003–04 | Eastern Province B (1977–78 to 2004–05) | |
| Easterns | 1991–92 | 2003–04 | Eastern Transvaal (1991–92 to 1994–95) | |
| Free State | 1897–98 | 2003–04 | Orange Free State (1897–98 to 1994–95) | |
| Gauteng | 1889–90 | 2003–04 | Transvaal (1889–90 to 1996–97) | Transvaal B (1959–60 to 1997–98) |
| Griqualand West | 1889–90 | 2003–04 | Kimberley (1889–90 to 1891–92) | |
| KwaZulu-Natal | 1893–94 | 2003–04 | Natal (1893–94 to 1997–98) | Natal B (1965–66 to 1998–99) |
| Northerns | 1937–38 | 2003–04 | Northern Transvaal (1971–72 to 1996–97) North Eastern Transvaal (1937–38 to 1970–71) |
|
| North West | 1991–92 | 2003–04 | Western Transvaal (1991–92 to 1995–96) | |
| Rhodesia | 1904–05[a] | 1979–80 | Rhodesia B (1977–78 to 1979–80) | |
| South Western Districts | 1904–05 | 1904–05 | ||
| Western Province | 1892–93 | 2003–04 | Western Province B (1975–76 to 2004–05) |
- ^ Rhodesia competed in 1904–05, 1929–30 and 1931–32 before playing each season from 1946–47
Alternatively, if the B teams played exclusively in the Bowl (I'm not entirely sure), one could list them in a separate table? Anyway, let me know your thoughts if you have them. HornetMike (talk) 14:58, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
- @HornetMike: - thanks for your work on this and apologies for the delay in replying. The whole system is less than straight-forward to understand! I like the layout of the V2 table, so I would be bold and use that one. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 18:01, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for following up, and sorry for my belated response! I've implemented my V2 table in the article. It is really confusing! Our whole South African domestic section feels like it could do with more clarity - I'll try to add some over the coming months, but sourcing/time will be a challenge! HornetMike (talk) 17:18, 18 March 2022 (UTC)