Talk:Contact sign

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Pidgin Sign English

Hello,

"The phrase Pidgin Sign English (PSE, sometimes "Pidgin Signed English") is often used to describe the different contact languages that arise between the English language and either British Sign Language, New Zealand Sign Language, Auslan or American Sign Language, but the term is increasingly falling out of favor."

Is there some way that the statement that this term is falling out of favor can be backed up? I don't know much about this topic at all but I've run across this term several times on the web (Here, for instance: http://www.bisworld.com/services/interpreting.htm ) --babbage 18:41, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Back when this article was created, I found some weblinks on the issue.

An ASL linguistics glossary [1]:

Contact Sign: ... is sometimes referred to as Pidgin Sign English (PSE); however, many linguists today do not consider it a true pidgin because its grammar and lexicon are more complex than those of most (spoken language) pidgins (see pidgin).

Another glossary [2]:

Contact Sign: formerly known as Pidgin Sign English (PSE) is a term that refers to a contact language or blended form of English and ASL. Often used when d/Deaf people and hearing people attempt to communicate.

"ASL University", an "online ASL University is an online curriculum resource for American Sign Language students" etc. [3]:

Contact Signing: Also known as: Pidgin Signed English (PSE)

Note: ASL linguistics tend to use the term "Contact Signing" rather than PSE. The reason for this is that "contact signing" doesn't quite seem to fit the commonly held definition (or conventions) of a typical "pidgin" language as used by linguists. You will still see the term PSE used from time to time. But I suggest you use the newer term "contact signing."

However, none of these sites really fit the wikipedia criteria for notability, and you are right that the term PSE is still widely used. I'll see if I can find a ref and maybe change the wording in the article. ntennis 23:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm. I found one marginally better from a quick look at google scholar, the book is The Signing Family: What Every Parent Should Know about Sign Communication, by David Stewart, Barbara Luetke-Stahlman. 1998. Gallaudet University Press. ISBN 1563680696. It's not very academic, but it says much the same as those above:

"Contact signing combines ASL signs and some ASL linguistic features with English word order. It was formerly referred to as Pidgin Sign English or PSE." (page 3).

ntennis 01:18, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lemme add fuel to the fire, here. The article cites a source from 1973 which says that Pidgin Signed English, the term, is falling out of use. I wasn't even born in 1973, but I have never heard anyone use the term Contact Sign before finding this article. I have exclusively heard Pidgin Signed English. At 34, and Deaf all of my life, I think that if Pidgin Signed English was falling out of us in 1973 that I wouldn't continue to hear the term. At the very least that source needs to be changed and the statement altered to reflect reality. Further, the sites you're referencing aren't really for or by the Deaf. Regardless of what some linguists may think of the terms, Pidgin Signed English is used by the Deaf community as far as I have ever come across, and it's rather insulting that someone wants to just run rough shod over their usage. Geofferic ^T•_C✡ 15:44, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I want to add that this page has next to zero information about PSE, regardless of how one defines it. Considering the wealth of information out there (covering the various forms, regional uses, etc), PSE should have its own page and should not have been merged here, IMO. I am putting it on my TODO list to recreate the page and flesh it out. Geofferic ^T•_C✡ 15:50, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've improved the PSE definition, as it generally refers to ASL mixed with English syntax. Essentially, uses ASL signs with English grammar. I'm a PSE user, and used some sources to the statement. However, it should be on it's own page as it is seen as a Dialect of ASL, or should be on the ASL page. I've also included the statements on the ASL page about PSE on this as well. LythPython (talk) 03:37, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]