Talk:Fried chicken

Removing Jewish foodways from the article

I don't agree with the removal of Jewish foodways from the article. I'm not aware of any dispute and can't imagine why it would be disputed to add two sentences about Jewish cultural foodways needed because "Sunday dinners" are mentioned. I think it was a mistaken removal of disputed and undisputed content together and have restored it for now. Yaksmarrow (talk) 06:35, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Article contradicts itself and the Karaage article?

The Karaage article says they were cooking fried chicken in Japan since at least the 16th century. The Tempura article says that Japanese fritters were introduced by Portuguese missionaries toward the end of the 16th century. This article says fried chicken "evolved from the 16th century British Frie chicken" (whatever that is). But then immediately after, it says fried chicken derived from Scottish and West African precedents. Then it goes into a lengthy defense of the claim that African slaves introduced fried chicken to the United States.

It seems like there was, unsurprisingly, some dispute about who gets credit for fried chicken, white Americans or black Americans. That apparently led to a citation war (explaining why the History section is littered with excessive inline citations), which was resolved by fusing the two parallel perspectives together. But this leads to an incoherent section that can't decide who invented frying or who brought it (and seasoning) to the US.

Given the popularity of fritters in medieval Europe as Lenten food, and the sources indicating that Karaage and Tempura developed in Japan as early as the mid 16th century, it's hard to believe West Africans introduced Europeans to the notion of deep frying chicken. Some sources make a vague assertion, without any evidence, that fried chicken "has its origins" in West African cuisine. There's also one claiming that deep frying in the South followed "the African method," but not offering any evidence or sources for that method. But the sources that actually provide some detail on the history don't say anything about fried chicken specifically, just that chicken was an ancestral, sacred food. The examples of West African chicken dishes don't seem to bear any resemblance to American fried chicken, while Japanese karaage bears an extremely close resemblance to it. But the article itself seems to conflate chicken with fried chicken.

Maybe it would be better to simply say that two different parties claim credit, and there isn't any conclusive evidence for the "paper trail" of American fried chicken. Then the article can focus on known historical examples of fried chicken, like karaage and the Scottish preparations (and I guess also the British "Frie chicken," if anyone knows what that is... is that a typo or a proper noun?), and anything else that can be found (I've heard colloquially there is an old tradition from China but don't know of any sources with details).

Which leads me to the other problem with the article, its America-centrism. If the content were left as-is, it should really be entitled "Southern fried chicken," because the entire History section seems to start in the 16th century and only mentions influences on the American dish. But as I already noted earlier, a very similar dish (differing only in the subtleties of preparation and local seasoning preferences) was being prepared in Japan even earlier, and presumably also in Portugal. This European and Japanese development would be interesting to cover, not just for the sake of a global perspective but also because it predates any American tradition and presumably influences the American tradition (with the US colonies and nearby Mexico having been founded by European colonists).

Since sources on deep frying are known to predate sources on fried chicken, it would also be worth mentioning earlier varieties of fritters. It's not hard to see how people who habitually deep fried dough and vegetables might have got the idea to try it with pieces of chicken. But I'm not sure what the article's intent is. Are we intentionally only concerned with the American dish? Is the History section about the development of fried chicken in general, or is it about the introduction of fried chicken to the United States? GlacialHorizon (talk) 23:27, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

To complicate further, there are two Wikidata items that both seem to be about the breaded and fried chicken dish: [1] (where this article is listed) and [2] (where the simple English article is listed). I think that this article should be about breaded/battered and fried chicken in general (with the Southern fried chicken mentioned as a type of fried chicken) and that the Wikidata items be merged so that the interwiki links work better. Is there really any significant difference between southern fried chicken and other breaded or battered fried chicken dishes, that makes southern fried chicken notable enough for a separate article? Sjö (talk) 12:46, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 January 2025

Place of Origin should be changed to Scotland as it was invented in Scotland as stated on the page. 148.252.147.92 (talk) 15:23, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. PianoDan (talk) 23:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

16th century British Frie chicken

I removed the mention of frie chicken since it was based on a misreading of the source The Good Huswifes Jewell, the text of which is here. The only mention of frie chicken is in a header: "To frie Chickins." All recipes in the book has a header, usually in the format "To" + verb + noun or noun phrase, e.g. "To make a made dishe of Artechokes", which means that "frie chickin" is not a name for the dish, but part of a phrase about frying chicken. Sjö (talk) 13:52, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

you.must have misread it. The recipe is to to frie chickens the recipe is below the title you mentioned. Sharnadd (talk) 07:16, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes the recipe was to frie chickens. I didn't stated that is where the term for southern fried chicken came from Sharnadd (talk) 09:52, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

What? TiggerJay (talk) 17:58, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

Technically, you didn't say that it is where the term southern fried chicken came from. But your text said that the phrase "fried chicken" evolved from the 16th century British "Frie chicken".[3] Before that you said that "fried chicken" was called "frie chicken" in 16th century England [4]. There is nothing in the reference that supports either of those statements.Sjö (talk) 11:45, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

The page is a page on southern fried chicken the recipe in the book supports those statments but I did say I would get you a source showing that when people referred to food dishes in the 16th century they referred to them by the name of the recipes Sharnadd (talk) 11:57, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

1830s fried chicken

I am unable to trace the source of the expression fried chicken being in he 1830s. The source cited just states 1832 but doesn't actually give any details. Does anyone have any idea where it came from before the 1830s is removed Sharnadd (talk) 06:36, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Does it matter where it came from? The reference is supposed to verify that the term existed in the 1830s, which it does. If a reference is there to support fact A, there is no reason to remove it because it does not mention fact B that is not even mentioned in article. Sjö (talk) 11:47, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes it matters if the statement is correct. No one is trying to remove it as it does not support fact b whatever you consider that to b. So a reference may just state a date and not show origin. That is fine, however it does not support fact a which is that the American expression for southern fried chicken was fried chicken in the USA in the 1830s. It just states fried chicken Sharnadd (talk) 12:02, 3 February 2025 (UTC)