Talk:Joseph Conrad

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Notes

I feel that many of the notes can be better expressed in the main body of the article, and others can be trimmed down or deleted. Some are only tangentially related to Joseph Conrad (Note 10, Note 39), others are not related to Conrad at all (Note 9, Note 32), others are redundant because they are already mentioned elsewhere in the article (Note 14, Note 31, Note 33), and some are mere speculation (Note 25, Note 26). It would probably be for the best if some notes were edited for concision, especially Note 18, which is the longest note I've ever seen on Wikipedia. In my opinion, most notes in the lead summary would be better off as part of the article in 'Citizenship' (Note 1), 'Writing style' (Note 2, Note 3, Note 4), or in the case of Note 6, cited directly as it is merely a quote from a source. If a note contains vital information to a topic, then it should be in the main body of the article instead of being relegated to a note, where the reader might not see it. Constable31 (talk) 23:51, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notes tend to be a sign of article ownership. Feel free to eliminate.--Jack Upland (talk) 23:23, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have reviewed the 43 notes to the "Joseph Conrad" article and find that they all relate directly to the article's subject or to his Polish, French, British, or world milieus and help the reader better understand Conrad's life.

The information in most of the notes could not have been interpolated into the maintext without creating unwieldiness. But the information is all there for the interested reader, much as in the appendices of a print book.

The longest note, no. 18, is an extensive quotation from a letter by Conrad's mentor and benefactor, his uncle Tadeusz Bobrowski, describing in detail the circumstances of Conrad's 1878 suicide attempt – an attempt that throws interesting light on Conrad's personality.

In toto the article, as it stands, is probably the most comprehensive existing brief account of Conrad's life and works, affording a fairly complete picture that will not be found in any traditional paper encyclopedia.

Indeed Wikipedia, as an electronic encyclopedia, is not constrained by the severe limits of a traditional paper encyclopedia.

Readers not wishing to delve into certain aspects of the article's subject that are found in the notes are free not to do so. Those wishing to explore them are likewise free to do so.

Readers of this discussion will find, at the top of this talk page, an unsolicited review from a reader who evidently was not distressed by the number or character of the notes: "Wonderful article! I came to this article looking for facts, and then read the entire text out of pure enjoyment. A beautiful article which succeeds very well in conveying the contradictions of Conrad's person and the richness of his work. Thanks for the excellent piece!"

Nihil novi (talk) 02:48, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would say that some notes can be interpolated into the main text without creating unwieldiness. Najder's quote in Note 2, for example, is already in the Language section of the article, so it wouldn't be a stretch to put Kipling's thoughts on Conrad along with the paragraphs discussing Conrad's use of English.

I disagree that every note helps the reader better understand Conrad's life. There are some notes that are redundant, and some which don't seem to add anything related to Conrad's biography. I fail to see how "X is the Roman numeral for Ten" (Note 9) adds meaningfully to the section on Conrad's early life, or how "Fidanza is an Italian expression for 'fidelity'" (Note 32) - a fact that is already included in the Nostromo article - adds meaningfully to a paragraph about how Conrad's characters often have lethal fates. Notes 28 and 31 convey basically the same information, Note 14's quote is mentioned in the body of the article, and there is an entire section dedicated to discussing the languages Conrad spoke, making Note 33 restate a fact that was expounded upon earlier in the article. The article is certainly a great article, very well-researched and very comprehensive, but its notes could be cleaned up and integrated more efficiently, in my view. Constable31 (talk) 11:02, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note 2: The "Language" section does not cite the notable remarks by Kipling or Najder.

Note 9 explains that the Warsaw Citadel's Pavilion 10 was named, in Latin, "Pavilion X": a place infamous in Polish history for the imprisonment and/or execution of a who's who of Polish patriots and revolutionaries, including Joseph Conrad's father, Apollo Korzeniowski.

Note 32: The fact of Fidanza's surname, in Nostromo, meaning "fidelity" (or "trust") is indeed mentioned in the Wikipedia "Nostromo" article, but not in the Joseph Conrad article's "Themes and style" section's paragraph discussing the lethal fates of many of Conrad's characters.

Notes 28 and 31 both do quote Conrad's wife in reference to an incident of delirium suffered by Conrad, but in reference as well to another source for his story "Amy Foster".

Note 14: paragraph 3 from the bottom of the "Writer" section relates to Conrad's frustration at being regarded as "a romantic teller of exotic tales." The remark on "a whisper: 'Keep to the open sea'" is repeated in paragraph 2 of the "Themes and style" section, in the context of his "[knowing] little about everyday domestic relations in Britain."

Note 33 ("Conrad was a trilingual Pole: Polish-, French-, and English-speaking") reminds readers of this fact in the context of Edward Said remarking that Conrad "was a Pole and an Englishman..."

Some of the more compact notes' items of information might perhaps be integrated into the "Joseph Conrad" article's main text, but there is surely nothing to be gained by eliminating information that enhances understanding of Conrad's life and works.

Nihil novi (talk) 16:31, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jessie's cookbook

Jessie Conrad wrote A Handbook of Cookery for a Small House, published in 1923 (see [1]https://www.gutenberg.org/files/67482/67482-h/67482-h.htm, for which JC wrote a rather touching preface. I think that's worth a mention in the Personal Life section. Thoughts? Plutonium27 (talk) 14:46, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Plutonium27: I've added a paragraph (3rd from bottom) in the "Romance and marriage" subsection, linking to Conrad's preface.

Thanks for your interest in Joseph Conrad, and apologies for having taken so long.

Best,

Nihil novi (talk) 02:56, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]