Talk:Lhasa (city)

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Review: September 15, 2015. (Reviewed version).

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A fact from Lhasa (city) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 12 October 2015 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Lhasa City contains the city of Lhasa?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2015/October. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lhasa (prefecture-level city).

Wikipedia

Proposed move

Moved to Talk:Lhasa § Proposed move

Requested move 21 April 2015

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus for the proposed moved; there appears, rather, to be a consensus against the proposal. bd2412 T 16:41, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Lhasa (prefecture-level city) → Lhasa City – See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese)#Disambiguation of settlements and administrative units: In general, when deciding to disambiguate a place name, those settlements ranked higher administratively (i.e. higher up the following table) are primary topic over those ranked lower, unless sourcing exists to establish significant notability of a lower-ranked division. So if settlement of Lhasa is more notable, this page should use its offical name (Lhasa City) instead of "Lhasa (prefecture-level city)", like Jilin City (not "Jilin (prefecture-level city)"). --Relisted. George Ho away from home (talk) 20:13, 29 April 2015 (UTC) GZWDer (talk) 05:20, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note the earlier related move discussion at Talk:Lhasa § Proposed move. – Wbm1058 (talk) 20:31, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with this proposal is that the rump Lhasa is also a "city". — AjaxSmack 03:23, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - In what sense is "Lhasa City" the official name for the prefecture-level city, in English at least? If that could be demonstrated then that might be the best approach, similar to City of Leeds. But if it's a made up term, then as AjaxSmack says, it doesn't really add anything over and above calling "Lhasa City" the urban core. — Amakuru (talk) 13:57, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Lhasa City has redirected to Lhasa since October 2008. The earlier discussion did not change that; in effect, it redefined the scope of Lhasa City from the prefecture-level area to Chengguan. Is city (small "c") meaning Chengguan sufficient disambiguation from City (capital "C") meaning prefecture-level area? I fear this will be confusing to Americans, for whom "New York City" means the smaller urban core, and not New York State. Jilin and Jilin City seem equivalent to New York and New York City. But, in the case of Lhasa, the equivalent situation would have New York, or Jilin, meaning the city (urban area). In that case, what would we call Jilin? Likely, it would be Jilin (province) or Jilin Province. Thus, Lhasa (prefecture-level city). I'm open to a possible compromise: Lhasa City (prefectural), or similar. "City" by itself just seems too ambiguous here. Wbm1058 (talk) 12:44, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This has been exhaustively discussed in Talk:Lhasa § Proposed move. Readers who use the search term "Lhasa City" will almost always be looking for the small urban district, not the much larger former prefecture. Lhasa City should continue to redirect to Lhasa. The title Lhasa (prefecture-level city) is awkward but accurate. The article does indeed describe a prefecture-level city named Lhasa. Aymatth2 (talk) 16:01, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lhasa which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:44, 10 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lhasa (prefecture-level city)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jaguar (talk · contribs) 19:54, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Very comprehensive. I should have this to you tomorrow JAGUAR 19:54, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Initial comments

"formerly Lhasa Prefecture, is a prefecture-level city, one of the main administrative divisions" - missing "and"?

Well it's saying that the prefecture-level city is one of the main divisions so I think it's OK.

"The Han Chinese population was mainly concentrated in urban areas" - still as of the 2000 census?

at the time..

"Chengguan District is also the center of Tibet in terms of transport, communications, education and religion, the most developed part of Tibet and a major tourist destination with sights such as the Potala Palace" - the sentence here is a bit choppy. It might sound better as Chengguan District is also the center of Tibet in terms of transport, communications, education and religion, as well as being the most developed part of Tibet and a major tourist destination with sights such as the Potala Palace...

Done.

"Contact with India began along" - might be worth changing this to the Indian continent

Continent? It's a country bordering Tibet!

I meant when it was a separate continent millions of years ago, sorry I should've been clearer! JAGUAR 21:40, 14 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"The Lhasa valley is roughly the same latitude as the southern US" - should read as full "United States"

Done.

"Products include braziers, flower pots, vases, jugs and so on" - and vice versa?

just changed it to and jugs.

" China National Highway 318 runs through Qüxü County from Lhasa" - China National Highway 318 is already linked above in this section

Delinked.

~~"said to have been founded in 1055 by Dromtön, a pupil of Atiśa" - "student"? I can't check this source to see what it says as it's in Chinese~~ nevermind, the source says "pupil"!
"Perhaps 250,000 people live in the city and in towns" approximately

Done

"The first drug rehabilitation center in Tibet was being constructed in Duilongdeqing County in 2009. It would provide physiological rehabilitation, psychological therapy" - I think this is in the wrong tense

Added "was planned"

References

Historical Dra Yerpa temple in Tibet is dead
Research on the rational use of water resources on the Lhasa River, Tibet is dead
"The Tibetan Plateau: Regional Stratigraphic Context and Previous Work" ref has a harvref error - needs correcting

Aymatth2 Can you fix?♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:58, 14 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. I found alternative sites holding the two deadlink documents, and removed the unused source "The Tibetan Plateau: Regional Stratigraphic Context and Previous Work" Aymatth2 (talk) 10:03, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

On hold

This is a very well written and comprehensive article, even deserving of FA status. I hope I didn't miss anything vital out, but it took me an hour just to read through the prose (and I checked through most of the sources), but most of it is fine. Once all of the above are clarified then this should easily pass JAGUAR 15:34, 14 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Jaguar: We're all good now I think, thanks for the review.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:59, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for addressing them! Very good article. Might be worth taking to FA one day

JAGUAR 19:02, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Use of Baidu Baike as a source

I notice that Baidu Baike has been used a few times as sources in this article. Baidu Baike is basically a clone of Wikipedia, but with nonexistent guidelines regarding notability and copyright. This means that these sources are WP:USERGENERATED and should be avoided. sst^flyer 17:43, 19 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Administrative Divisions table

Name	Tibetan	Wylie	Tibetan pinyin official transcription	Simplified Chinese	Hanyu Pinyin	Population (2010)	Area (km²)	Density (/km²)
City proper
Chengguan District	ཁྲིན་ཀོན་ཆུས་	khrin kon chus	Chingoin Qü	城关区	Chéngguān Qū	279,074	525	531.56
Suburban
Doilungdêqên District	སྟོད་ལུང་བདེ་ཆེན་ཆུས་	stod lung bde chen chus	Dölungdêqên Qü	堆龙德庆区	Duīlóngdéqìng Qū	52,249	2,672	19.55
Rural
Dagzê County	སྟག་རྩེ་རྫོང་	stag rtse rdzong	Dagzê Zong	达孜县	Dázī Xiàn	26,708	1,361	19.62
Damxung County	འདམ་གཞུང་རྫོང་	dam gzhung rdzong	Damxung Zong	当雄县	Dāngxióng Xiàn	46,463	10,234	4.54
Lhünzhub County	ལྷུན་གྲུབ་རྫོང་	lhun grub rdzong	Lhünzhub Zong	林周县	Línzhōu Xiàn	50,246	4,100	12.25
Maizhokunggar County	མལ་གྲོ་གུང་དཀར་རྫོང་	mal gro gung dkar rdzong	Maizhokunggar Zong	墨竹工卡县	Mòzhúgōngkǎ Xiàn	44,674	5,492	8.13
Nyêmo County	སྙེ་མོ་རྫོང་	snye mo rdzong	Nyêmo Zong	尼木县	Nímù Xiàn	28,149	3,266	8.61
Qüxü County	ཆུ་ཤུར་རྫོང་	chu shur rdzong	Qüxü Zong	曲水县	Qūshuǐ Xiàn	31,860	1,624	19.61

This table looks horrible on my mobile. This is way too much detail in an overview in the English Wikipedia. The individual articles on the counties and districts show the Tibetan and Chinese characters and transliterations, which are not needed at this level. If there are no objections, I will trim the table down to the meaningful information: name, pop, area, density. Otherwise I will at least put name, pop, area, density on the left of the table, where they can be seen without sideways scrolling, and leave the other symbols to the right. Snye mo rdzong? Aymatth2 (talk) 00:36, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Aymatth2: leave the other symbols to the right Do you mean that the Tibetan and hanzi script are pushed to the right of the hard numbers? If so, that seems a sensible solution compared to leaving script out altogether. CaradhrasAiguo (talk) 18:12, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@CaradhrasAiguo: Yes, my second best was to shove the symbols and transliterations to the right. The trouble is that on a mobile the reader would now see the size and population right away, but still has to scroll right to see if there is anything interesting past the symbols. And of course there is not. A table that cannot fit on a mobile, the primary viewing device for Wikipedia, is too wide. Another way to do it would be to hide the symbols and transliterations in a separate table, see below:

Name	Population (2010)	Area (km²)	Density (/km²)
City proper
Chengguan District	279,074	525	531.56
Suburban
Doilungdêqên District	52,249	2,672	19.55
Rural
Dagzê County	26,708	1,361	19.62
Damxung County	46,463	10,234	4.54
Lhünzhub County	50,246	4,100	12.25
Maizhokunggar County	44,674	5,492	8.13
Nyêmo County	28,149	3,266	8.61
Qüxü County	31,860	1,624	19.61

Tibetan and Chinese forms of the names

Name	Tibetan	Wylie	Tibetan pinyin official transcription	Simplified Chinese	Hanyu Pinyin
Chengguan District	ཁྲིན་ཀོན་ཆུས་	khrin kon chus	Chingoin Qü	城关区	Chéngguān Qū
Doilungdêqên District	སྟོད་ལུང་བདེ་ཆེན་ཆུས་	stod lung bde chen chus	Dölungdêqên Qü	堆龙德庆区	Duīlóngdéqìng Qū
Dagzê County	སྟག་རྩེ་རྫོང་	stag rtse rdzong	Dagzê Zong	达孜县	Dázī Xiàn
Damxung County	འདམ་གཞུང་རྫོང་	dam gzhung rdzong	Damxung Zong	当雄县	Dāngxióng Xiàn
Lhünzhub County	ལྷུན་གྲུབ་རྫོང་	lhun grub rdzong	Lhünzhub Zong	林周县	Línzhōu Xiàn
Maizhokunggar County	མལ་གྲོ་གུང་དཀར་རྫོང་	mal gro gung dkar rdzong	Maizhokunggar Zong	墨竹工卡县	Mòzhúgōngkǎ Xiàn
Nyêmo County	སྙེ་མོ་རྫོང་	snye mo rdzong	Nyêmo Zong	尼木县	Nímù Xiàn
Qüxü County	ཆུ་ཤུར་རྫོང་	chu shur rdzong	Qüxü Zong	曲水县	Qūshuǐ Xiàn

Note I have also pushed the text up to normal size, easier on old eyes like mine. I have trouble seeing the need to include Tibetan script, meaningless to most readers, in a high-level overview like this. The script is given in the articles on each subdivision for those who need it. But perhaps this is a reasonable compromise. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:09, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Since there were no further comments, I have gone ahead and made the change. Aymatth2 (talk) 12:53, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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