Talk:List of Formula One constructor records
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Most consecutive races started
[edit]There are some mistakes in this list. Brabham have not raced in 1988 but still the season is included in the streak. Ferrari have not competed in Indianapolis 500 races or for example in South Africa 1962, but still their streak starts in 1956. With these mistakes, I'm not sure to believe the other streaks are valid. Are there other long streaks that actually should be in the list? Which streak is 11th to possibly replace Ferrari's?
@Shadow614 and @Cxp1, you two seem to mainly update this page, do you know if there's a source somewhere? If not, can you help to fix this list? Thanks in advance! Wiki4David (talk) 22:27, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
- I've fixed the Brabham entry (based on the info at Brabham Grand Prix results) and removed the Ferrari entry and added a request for a source. In the meantime, I'll look for one myself. DH85868993 (talk) 11:09, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks to Shadow and DH! There were other errors found in the streaks of Williams, Brabham and Lotus. The streaks of Ferrari, Brabham and Lotus were deleted and the streaks of Toro Rosso, Benetton and BMW Sauber/Sauber were added. I believe Brabham would be the first streak off the list with 251 GPs (Germany 1962 - United States West 1982). A source would still be nice but at least the top 10 is now without mistakes. Wiki4David (talk) 14:31, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
- Isn’t Ferrari 1962 until San Marino 1982 a top ten streak as well? Tvx1 17:10, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
- Hmm. Ferrari missed several races during that period (62 FRA, 62 USA, 62 RSA, 66 GBR, 66 MEX, 67 RSA, 68 MON, 69 GBR, 73 NED, 73 GER, 76 AUT), so I guess it's a matter of what the rules of inclusion in the table are. The statement at the top says "Most consecutive races that the constructor entered (was registered) and actually started", so does that mean that if a constructor missed a race but they weren't entered (or were originally entered by withdrew their entries before the race?), then that doesn't break the streak? In that case, then (based on Ferrari Grand Prix results and assuming they weren't entered for all the races where the column is completely blank), Ferrari's streak would stretch all the way from the 1950 Italian Grand Prix to the 1982 San Marino Grand Prix, which would definitely be in the table (I haven't actually counted the races). But is that a sensible criteria for inclusion? Without the statement at the top of the table, I would have interpreted "consecutive races started" as the meaning the constructor started every single race on the calendar during the specified period. I think that's how it's interpreted at List of Formula One driver records, e.g. Hamilton's streak finishes at the 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix, even though he wasn't entered for the race he missed. DH85868993 (talk) 22:59, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
- Yeah, I noticed in the meantime they missed mutiple GP’s. Ignore my question. Tvx1 07:26, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
- I've removed the (imo potentially confusing) leadin text. I think most readers will interpret "consecutive races started" as "started every race on the calendar in the specified period", which is what the table now lists. DH85868993 (talk) 11:26, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
- I think this has trespassed into original research now. We have essentially definedconsecutive ourselves. If this is actually recognized as a record, we should reflect the definition of the sources (none of which is currently provided), not make up our own. Tvx1 10:07, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
- I've removed the (imo potentially confusing) leadin text. I think most readers will interpret "consecutive races started" as "started every race on the calendar in the specified period", which is what the table now lists. DH85868993 (talk) 11:26, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
- Yeah, I noticed in the meantime they missed mutiple GP’s. Ignore my question. Tvx1 07:26, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
- Hmm. Ferrari missed several races during that period (62 FRA, 62 USA, 62 RSA, 66 GBR, 66 MEX, 67 RSA, 68 MON, 69 GBR, 73 NED, 73 GER, 76 AUT), so I guess it's a matter of what the rules of inclusion in the table are. The statement at the top says "Most consecutive races that the constructor entered (was registered) and actually started", so does that mean that if a constructor missed a race but they weren't entered (or were originally entered by withdrew their entries before the race?), then that doesn't break the streak? In that case, then (based on Ferrari Grand Prix results and assuming they weren't entered for all the races where the column is completely blank), Ferrari's streak would stretch all the way from the 1950 Italian Grand Prix to the 1982 San Marino Grand Prix, which would definitely be in the table (I haven't actually counted the races). But is that a sensible criteria for inclusion? Without the statement at the top of the table, I would have interpreted "consecutive races started" as the meaning the constructor started every single race on the calendar during the specified period. I think that's how it's interpreted at List of Formula One driver records, e.g. Hamilton's streak finishes at the 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix, even though he wasn't entered for the race he missed. DH85868993 (talk) 22:59, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
- Isn’t Ferrari 1962 until San Marino 1982 a top ten streak as well? Tvx1 17:10, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks to Shadow and DH! There were other errors found in the streaks of Williams, Brabham and Lotus. The streaks of Ferrari, Brabham and Lotus were deleted and the streaks of Toro Rosso, Benetton and BMW Sauber/Sauber were added. I believe Brabham would be the first streak off the list with 251 GPs (Germany 1962 - United States West 1982). A source would still be nice but at least the top 10 is now without mistakes. Wiki4David (talk) 14:31, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
Total races started
[edit]I noticed the data in the table doesn’t match the data in the cited source. Why? Tvx1 10:10, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
- Because the cited source (StatsF1) aggregates the achievements of constructors differently to the way English Wikipedia does. Specifically:
- Williams - StatsF1 aggregates the achievements of the "Frank Williams Racing Cars" Williamses (1975-1976) and the "Williams Grand Prix Engineering/Williams Racing" Williamses (1978-2025) whereas English Wikipedia distinguishes between them
- Sauber/BMW Sauber - English Wikipedia aggregates the achievements of Sauber (1993-2005, 2011-2018, 2024-2025) and BMW Sauber (2006-2010) whereas StatsF1 distinguishes between them
- Lotus - StatsF1 aggregates the achievements of Team Lotus (1958-1994), Team Lotus (2010-2011) and Lotus F1 (2012-2015) whereas English Wikipedia distinguishes between them
- Arrows - English Wikipedia aggregates the achievements of Arrows (1978-1990, 1997-2002) and Footwork Arrows (1991-1996) whereas StatsF1 distinguishes between them
- DH85868993 (talk) 10:45, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
- Which calls in question their reliability as a sources. If we’re not reflecting them, we shouldn’t cite them as a source. Tvx1 14:15, 18 April 2025 (UTC)