Talk:Mani (prophet)

Requested move 18 January 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is unusually discretionary on how participants should weight WP:PT1 and WP:PT2 (or other considerations), and I don't see reason to discount either side's arguments. No new commenters in 7 days. The prior "no consensus" closure should not have been reverted out of process. SilverLocust 💬 13:56, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

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• Mani (prophet) → Mani
• Mani → Mani (disambiguation)

– My guess is that Mani the prophet is the primary topic, that most people searching on "mani" are looking for this guy. There are a lot of other things that come under "mani", but none of them are really very notable, whilst Mani the prophet is a world-historical figure of great importance and (I think) fame. The objection would be "well, all these many other mani-things added together are probably equivalent to the one guy or close anyway". There's no way to know if that is true but my guess is not. Also, in the rule somewhere it stays to lean toward the more scientific/serious/long-term-important meaning for a term in cases of doubt. Herostratus (talk) 18:43, 18 January 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Steven Crossin ^{Help resolve disputes!} 08:13, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

• Support the founder of Manichaeism surely primary topic. --Altenmann >talk

• Per WP:DPT, we don't have to engage in as much guessing as the proposal says.

WikiNav for Mani shows readers to be choosing the prophet most often, but also mostly choosing other topics. In December, we could measure 213 clickstreams to the top item, 200 to other items, and 295 filtered (anonymized). I think the latter would lean less towards the more popular topic, but even if it doesn't, changing this would still mean that roughly half the readers would have to click the hatnote, which would be obviously bad navigation.

All-time mass views of all items show likewise that the prophet gets a lot reader interest, but nowhere near the majority (330/day vs 196, 174, 154, ...).

The spread of these topics is world-wide - the prophet from Iran, the peninsula in Greece, the musician from England, the moon myth from Germanic history, the actor from Pakistan, the stones from Tibet, the name spread in south Asia generally.

In turn, we can consider the latter's all-time mass views and easily find an Indian film director with a GA and 2337 views per day, and an Indian composer with 586 views/day.

I think we'd need a much more coherent long-term significance rationale to override this glaring lack of primary topic in usage. (Oppose) --Joy (talk) 17:26, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Note also that I had to revert this recent edit by the proposer because this discussion just started, only if we get consensus should a change like that be done. If you want to promote the link to the prophet from position #2 to #1, that's possible under the manual of style for common uses, but it doesn't seem to me that there's a reason for that - it's quite prominent as it is, and we see in the stats that all other uses of the name are more generally well known. --Joy (talk) 17:35, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Oh for goodness sake. I am allowed to make edits. Per WP:BRD someone can roll them back and it can then go to talk if desired. If consensus was required before any edits are made, this'd be a very different project indeed. I was looking at the article and made the edit and the proposed move. I resent you implying that there was something nefarious or incompetent about that. Herostratus (talk) 04:08, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose as per the information presented by Joy -- the numbers just are not sufficient to establish PTOPIC. The WikiNav data shows that while a large number does search out the prophet, it is around the same number as those looking for all other topics. When looking at page views, Mani (musician) commands about half the views of the prophet, but also Mani Peninsula is receiving similar numbers but commands the second highest from the DAB page. While indisputably the most popular by the numbers, and perhaps the most notable, they are hardly the only notable nor sought after Mani out there. TiggerJay (talk) 07:18, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting to garner further consensus, as I have not found any as of yet. For what it’s worth, my close as no consensus was reverted by an editor involved in this discussion. I would remind those involved in this discussion that there is a correct process to review disputes closes, and while I won’t participate further, would recommend that the process to request a move review be considered in future. Thanks. Steven Crossin ^{Help resolve disputes!} 08:13, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Iraq, WikiProject Religion, WikiProject Assyria, and WikiProject Iran have been notified of this discussion. ROY is WAR Talk! 16:24, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.