Talk:Melissa Newman (actress)

Help Needed to Differentiate the TWO Melissa Newmans

Background

I created this page to help clear up the confusion so many web users have about which Melissa Newman appeared in which movies/tv-shows.

There's still too much confusion about whether or not Paul Newman's daughter Melissa Stewart Newman starred in The Undefeated portraying a teenager when she was only 8 years old at the time... of course not! And yet Paul's daughter was still getting credit for other shows, like Bonanza, Gunsmoke, Hawkings, The New Perry Mason, and on and on. But in the 1972 Gunsmoke 17th Season Episode, "The Wedding," the character Donna Clayton's lines include something to the effect of, "Pa, I'm 20 years old... I'm a WOMAN!" (LOL... NOT an 11-year-old Child Actress!)

I've already moved Filmography credits from Paul's Daughter's page to this page after having watched the episodes/movies to confirm that it is a different person AND provided Citations for nearly all of them.

IMDB

Folks at IMDB have already realized they need TWO different ID's... one for the older Newman, and one for Paul's daughter... and they have already started the process of correcting their Movie/TV credits, but it's still incorrect on IDMB for Paul's daughter... hopefully, if we get it right, here at WP, someone at IMDB will follow our lead and correct their listings as well

• The IMDB ID for the Older Newman (who starred in The Undefeated) is nm0628179
• For Paul Newman's daughter, it is nm1206111

Next Steps

Verifying the Older Melissa Newman's Biography

For the Older "Melissa Newman" who co-starred with Wayne in "The Undefeated" we still need to Find/Verify the following:

• mother
• father
• date of birth
• place of birth
• Is she still alive? if not, need an Obit for Date & Place of death

One Source I found is from The Deseret News May 9 1969, Page 29, "Dunaway In No Hurry; Dustin Weds First Time" by Sheilah Graham [1]

The article claims the following, but still need add'l citations to verify:

• Melissa Newman was 16 years old in "The Undefeated"
  • still no confirmation on Date of Birth
  • another article has age as 18 in The Calgary Herald: "Gabriel, Olsen Tackling New Roles In Film Work" [2]
• Her mother was actress Ruth Hall

Ruth Hall & Lee Garmes had two daughters, but in "An Interview With... Ruth Hall" by Mike Fitzgerald in Western Clippings [3], Hall is quoted as saying Pamela was born in 1936, and Carol in 1942, making them 33 and 27 in 1969. So, that particular claim in The Deseret News is probably false.

So, the search continues. UPDATED: GreyElfGT (talk) 22:05, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Actress Photos - CC or Public Domain

I need someone who's expert enough in Copyright Issues to select photos for each person's InfoBox.

For example, from watching Mr. and Mrs. Bridge on Hoopla, it was VERY Clear that Paul's Daughter is easily distinguishable from the older actress from "The Undefeated". I took a Screenshot of Paul's daughter as "Young India at the pool", but did not upload it for fear of instant deletion due to copyright/sourcing isues.... If each page has a good, Creative Commons or Public Domain photo, I don't think most people would mistake one for the other, which would help ALL Web Users to END the Confusion!

Moving Paul's Daughter's Page

Unless there's a good reason not to, I'd like to see the existing Melissa Newman page moved without Redirect to something more Distinctive (less ambiguous) such as:

• Melissa Stewart Newman

Or possibly, because she's more of an Artist & Singer, than Actress, the following might work:

• Melissa Stewart Newman (artist, singer)
• Melissa S. Newman (artist, singer)
• Melissa Newman (artist, singer)

Disambiguation Page

Afterward moving, create a NEW "Melissa Newman" page on which to place a Disambiguation page, listing both actresses. ...or whatever is appropriate/consistent with such moves/renaming/redirecting. There are also other "Melissa Newman" persons out there of distinction (as I've found in my research), such as in Science, Telecommunications, et al, so we'll need a disambig page anyway.

Remaining Attributions to Verify

I haven't found any way for verify these (either by citation, or by direct viewing of the episodes). Can anyone else verify?

• Firehouse (1974) "Burst of Flame" (S1E1) as ??
• Headmaster (1970) "Valerie Has an Emotional Gestalt for the Teacher" (S1E3) as Valerie

Thank You in advance for your Help to improve the pages of BOTH of these persons. GreyElfGT (talk) 05:26, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

UPDATED: GreyElfGT (talk) 22:10, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Notability

GreyElfGT I've marked your {{help me}} request as inappropriate, since you are asking for (normal) assistance in supplying content. Asking here on the talk page is the first step - but without the helpme template. If you find you are not getting the attention you need, you might want to ask on the talk page of one of the associated WikiProjects for additional eyes on the problem. Also, use of the template should be on your own user talk page. Secondly, the content you've recent added to the article is itself inappropriate - if there is a controversy over the identity, that is something that would need to be cited to a source; otherwise most of that material is only suitable for use on a talk page discussion where the discrepancies are being attempted to be sorted out. Third, you need to entertain the possibility that neither of the actresses meets Wikipedia's notability criteria; the difficulty in finding sources to help sort out their identities could be a symptom of that. IMDB can be a resource to perhaps locate sources but is itself not usable as a source. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 05:45, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

jmcgnh <sigh> seems like every time I try to do something good on Wikipedia, I get some kinda flack for it... starting to wonder if I should even bother... and so much of it is just semantics.

Look... all I'm trying to do is point the Gunsmoke List of Episodes page to the Correct Actors/Actresses... there was previously no page for THIS Melissa Stewart... the one that Co-Starred with the likes of John Wayne, and Rock Hudson, and... et al. <---- if THAT is Not NOTABILITY, I don't know what IS! ...and it seems the WHOLE WORLD was getting it wrong... just do a web search for ppl asking how old was the actress when she starred in The Undefeated and just about every answer was that she is Paul Newman's daughter, who was EIGHT at the time... don't you think, as an Encyclopedia, that we owe it to the public to get these facts straight??

Same thing for her photo... clearly two different people, who should never get mixed up together, and yet ppl use the wrong photo all the time anyway...

More about Notability:

• She and Sam Elliott (ANOTHER BIG Star) dominated the small-screen on Gunsmoke.... they were the main focus of that episode.
• Lots of ppl are asking Where did she go after Voicing Dana Sterling on Robotech, so much so that the Robotech Fandom site has two different Dana-Sterling/Melissa Newman pages dedicated to answering just that one question, even going so far as to having contacted series creator Carl Macek !! again, ppl are interested.

Who Judges what's "inappropriate" ...All I want to do is set the facts straight, and separate the Film/TV credits into their appropriate pages, so that anyone doing a casual search on Wikipedia will get the CORRECT Person to link to, either within WP, or within their own Site or Paper, or Book or whatever.

...trust that she's notable, there's more work to be done on this page which will show that...

As for IMDB ref's, you can see that none of my citations are from IMDB... just one external link at the bottom, much like other pages. Likewise on Paul's daughter's page, Melissa Newman, I've made an effort to replace the previous IMDB inline citations with "citation needed" to encourage others to find verifiable 2nd-ary sources. I know better than to use IMDB inline...

...trouble is, I don't subscribe to various Newspapers, like other editors here do... I need others to help find what I cannot... thus the "Help Needed" requests. I spent literally hours searching Google Books, Newspapers, News, Scholar, etc., but w/o subscriptions, there's only so much I can verify myself. Hope that helps, and...

End of Rant... Can we just get on with the business of ensuring the information is correct? and attributed? and sourced? and leave off the criticism? If I sound Frustrated, it's because I am... the James Almanzar page I created is still off in Draftspace/Review Limbo somewhere... At least my Troy Melton and Robert Totten pages have finally found approval and are no longer a Candidates for Deletion... so...

...what's stopping approval for THIS page? GreyElfGT (talk) 16:47, 13 August 2022 (UTC)