Talk:Origen

Pronunciation

It's fairly standard to give a phonetic "spelling" of the names of people on their page. For example, /juːˈsiːbiəs/; Greek: Εὐσέβιος Eusebios. And these are contemporary pronunciations, not the way their peers knew them.

I never know whether to say 'rig' as in 'ridge' or as in plain 'rig', as in origin or Oregon.

I hate "Joe-see-fss" . . . but that's what everyone seems to call him, at least in the English-speaking world. What do Israeli and, say, Romance-language scholars call him, I wonder? Nick Barnett (talk) 15:10, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Or may be the g in Origen should be pronounced like z in azure? Aminabzz (talk) 17:44, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Problem with an "Contra Hieronymum?"

The following passage from the "Views" section, under "Cosmology and Eschatology," contains what strongly seems to me an unsubstantiated claim:

"Jerome quotes Origen as having allegedly written that "after aeons and the one restoration of all things, the state of Gabriel will be the same as that of the Devil, Paul's as that of Caiaphas, that of virgins as that of prostitutes." Jerome, however, was not above deliberately altering quotations to make Origen seem more like a heretic, and Origen expressly states in his Letter to Friends in Alexandria that Satan and "those who are cast out of the kingdom of God" would be not included in the final salvation."

The source that is expressly listed for the second sentence, which is the one I take issue with, can be found here.

St. Jerome actually speaks about translation (and refutes accusations of mistranslation against him in another case) here. I really do not think we should be giving much credence to Dr. Chadwick (an evangelical Anglican, according to Wikipedia -- Origen is canonized in the Anglican communion) in regard to Jerome's moral aptitude. I think St. Jerome himself would answer more accurately in that regard: his letter indicates that any mistranslations are not willful and his translations, per classical norms, sought to render sense for sense. Ornithopolis (talk) 03:57, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Another possibility is that as Jerome lost confidence in Origen, he moved from reading Origen with a "hermeneutic of generosity" to using a "hermeneutic of suspicion." This response is natural, perhaps prudent even, but it has caused a lot of trouble in the church throughout the years as people with some suspect beliefs were accused of holding other beliefs they did not actually hold. The editorial implication is that editors need to be aware that when discussing what Origen actually believed there is a good chance that some (especially non-academic and older) material may be less good as WP:RS than desired; similar issue with Tertullian. Rick Jelliffe (talk) 09:53, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

He wrote in Latin? What about Greek?

This article acts like there is no difference between Greek and Latin in his writings. Why can't it say at the beginning or somewhere that all his works were in Greek? There is no way to tell from the article if he knew Latin or not. There's a world of difference between Greek and Latin, it seems like specifically mentioning the languages he knew and used would be significant in such an informative article. Jimhoward72 (talk) 08:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

ÖHL

I have been trying to remove ÖHL links but a bot keeps putting it back in. Anyone know how to solve this problem? -- Melchior2006 (talk) 15:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Melchior2006! Looking at the recent edits to this page, it looks like the reference was used multiple times; the first time the reference was given in full, and the second time, it used the "ref name" function. You deleted the first reference but not the second. One of that bot's functions is to find places where a ref name is referring to a deleted full reference and add the full reference to the short reference, under the assumption that the full reference was deleted by someone who didn't realize that the same reference was referred to in another place in the article. To avoid this, if the source has a "name" field in it, you need to check to see if that ref name is referred to elsewhere in the article and delete those as well. Smdjcl (talk) 19:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Got it, thanks for your help! -- Melchior2006 (talk) 23:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Age

In the infobox and the article text it's stated that he was 69 when he died. But minusing the birth and death dates yields 68!

So, his stated age, or one or both the dates are wrong. Aminabzz (talk) 17:47, 14 January 2025 (UTC)