Talk:Pablo Busch

GA review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pablo Busch/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Krisgabwoosh (talk · contribs) 00:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Vigilantcosmicpenguin (talk · contribs) 01:10, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

I'll take this one. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 01:10, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	All sources are cited with SFNs.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
	2c. it contains no original research.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	Earwig says 12.3%.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Article details the main points of Busch's life and his relationship with his son, which is the main aspect described in RSes.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	The article's content has had no disputes.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	All images are public domain.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	All images depict Pablo Busch himself.
	7. Overall assessment.

Initial comments

• Can you explain why Alminuto.com.bo is a reliable source?
• I'll be making some copyedits myself for grammar, MOS:LINK, etc.

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 01:28, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Lead section

• Either mention Bolivia in the first sentence or upon the mention of Ñuflo de Chávez Province.
• The first paragraph should not say "estranged" as it lacks the context that they later reconnected.
• Delete In politics,
• His harsh reign and ruthless imposition of order amid rampant banditry made him infamous across the department. → His imposition of order against bandits gave him a reputation for ruthlessness across the department.
• Specify that he was interned by the UK.

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 01:28, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Background and early life

• I think the section "Origins and family background" could be renamed to just "Family", but it's fine either way.
• in the fertile Magdeburg Börde, near the eponymous city I think there's too much description of the location of this town, which is tangential information.
• one of at least four siblings – some sources cite as many as seven → one of either four or seven siblings Based on what the footnote says.
• three named brothers is strange phrasing; it implies he has brothers without names. Perhaps say three known brothers.
• The use of the word "supposed" is awkward.
• I don't see why the "little more than in his mid-adolescence" statement has to be a direct quote. I think the sentence could be paraphrased as He graduated as a teenager.
• due to his republican and anti-monarchist views Redundant
• but is said to have fought off his attackers

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 06:45, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Presence in Bolivia

• A prominent wholesaler The rest of the sentence makes it clear what made him prominent.
• Delete which ferried passengers and cargo through the rivers of the Bolivian Amazon [es]; the exact purpose of these steamboats is not relevant to Busch's biography.
• Soon, however [...] When?
• I don't think "Involvement in the Acre War" needs to be its own section, as it is short and could be part of
• Busch actively supported the Bolivian camp
• employed by foreign and national corporations
• a source of academic dispute is vague—is there more context as to why his will would be controversial?
• Rather than approach nearby nations, Busch elected
• and spent thirty days in agony
• Delete and father of Hugo Banzer, not relevant to Busch.
• "harsh authority" for the "severe methods" Direct quotes are unnecessary here. The same goes for "suffered first-hand the harshness of [Busch's] selective kindness"
• The quote "it is impossible to separate fiction from reality" must be attributed.

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 06:45, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Relationships and children

• I would suggest having a sub-sub-section about Germán Busch, but it's fine either way.
• I personally think there's a bit too much detail about the family... Perhaps there might be enough information to eventually split it to "Family of Germán Busch", but I'll allow its inclusion here.
• I've tweaked the prose to include the children's birthdates written out—I think this is more transparent to readers, but if you disagree you can change it back.
• in Busch's much-questioned testament
• The birthplace of Busch's fifth and youngest son with Becerra, Germán (b. 1903), remains a subject of debate among scholars, who claim was either El Carmen del Iténez or San Javier as the site. Opinions often lie along regional lines depending on whether the advocate party is from Beni or Santa Cruz. Though the detail about the dispute is valid to include, I think it makes more sense to include on the article about Germán.
• The junior Pablo became a physician like his father and inherited his tendency for promiscuity This is the only time his reputation for promiscuity is mentioned, so it feels very sudden. It should be mentioned elsewhere; perhaps the start of the section could say that Busch had a reputation for promiscuity. Also, the phrasing "tendency for promiscuity" feels wrong in wikivoice; I'd probably not mention this statement about the younger Pablo at all.
• The quote box is entirely unnecessary and should be removed. The same goes for the other quote from Brockmann, "the filial love of a father who disregards ... his newborn son and then clings to him when he becomes powerful is doubtful"
• The quotes "plunged [Busch] into the darkest despair and remorse" and "father and son embraced each other in a long hug" should be replaced with paraphrasing.
• The phrase or else he would commit suicide is redundant with the quote in the same sentence. I also don't think the quote itself is important enough to include, but it's up to you.
• I think the quote "the most extraordinary episode of [Germán's] life" does not add much to the article and the sentence can be removed.
• The quote "sudden paternal devotion because it seemed to her – with reason – self-serving" should be replaced with paraphrasing.
• The quote "it is very probable" should be replaced with paraphrasing.
• Months later, Busch suffered the attack that forced him to seek treatment in Germany. Once he had healed, Busch returned to Bolivia but not to Baldivieso nor their son. → Months later, when Busch received medical treatment in Germany, he did not return to Baldivieso nor their son.
• became a prominent broadcaster
• Her son, Herland Vaca Díez Busch, a prominent nephrologist, served as president of the Pro-Santa Cruz Civic Committee [es] from 2011 to 2013 and was head of the Santa Cruz Historical and Geographic Studies Society. → Her son was nephrologist Herland Vaca Díez Busch.

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 06:45, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Later life and death

• pressed into service is vague phrasing—was he drafted or did someone convince him to do it?
• but Brockmann affirms says
• An eccentric figure, described as equal parts philanthropic and cruel Should be more clear about who describes him as such. That is, is it the historical accounts, or is it the general public?

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 06:45, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Source spotcheck

I'll be reviewing sources I can access online. Citation numbers as of this revision: — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 23:19, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Lijerón 2011:

50. Y
51. Y Except it says Pablo was born near San Javier, not in it.
53. N Mentions that there is debate about the family, but not about the birthplace specifically.
54. Y
55. Y
57. Y

Montenegro 2015:

12. Y
59. N It mentions the younger Pablo, but does not support your phrasing "inherited his tendency for promiscuity".

Also, side note: you link to Carlos Montenegro in the article, but this is clearly a different person from the one who wrote this book. That being said, can you explain what makes this book reliable? Looks like quite a small publisher.
Pinto 2023:

26. Y This also adds some details that could be useful context, such as the hypothesis that Busch's physical state when he wrote his will caused him to make errors.
53. N Doesn't directly say that people take sides in the dispute based on region.

Other sources:

39. (Crespo 1999) Y
54. This is a tertiary source that is less reliable than the other sources cited in this sentence. I think you can remove this source as long as the other sources verify this information.
85. (El Deber 22 February 2024)   This article does not mention Pablo Busch, and the connection is tangential. I would remove it.
87. (El Deber 15 July 2017) Y Also, you should probably mention the perspective of the family—the article says that Busch abandoned his families, which the family members quoted in this source argue against.
97. (Céspedes 1968) Y

@Krisgabwoosh: Alright, so I think there are a few issues with the sourcing that you need to address. Besides the sourcing, your biggest issue is the excessive use of unattributed quotations, and there are also a few NPOV issues with regards to description of the character. Placing this on hold. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 23:19, 22 February 2025 (UTC)