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Merge suggestion

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I suggest the article Jiffy reefing be merged into this one, it's not comprehensive enough to warrant an article on its own, and I can't see it being expanded to anything more than a decent section of the main Reefing article. If no objections in a week, I'll merge them myself. --Canley 09:55, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Square rigged reef?

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This article doesn't discuss how a square-rigged ship would reef its sails. It'd be great if someone could expand it. Jaddle 20:50, 10 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What about double reefing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.45.65.38 (talk) 10:57, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 Done HopsonRoad (talk) 21:52, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reefing only means reducing sail area?

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The article leads by saying the reefing means reducing the sail area. So what do you call increasing it? Is it not called "reefing out"?--Timtranslates (talk) 15:04, 5 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard that term used -- I think it's generally "taking the reef out," or, per the reference, "shaking it out." NE Ent 13:40, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Missing vocabulary

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I understand that reefing a sail is often done with Gasket (sailing). —Jerome Potts (talk) 08:16, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Contradictions within the article?

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Hi ThoughtIdRetired! Thank you for all the work that you do patrolling the accuracy of the ecosystem for sailing topics.

This article confuses me, because sources cited support reefing points being "grommeted holes in the sail between the reefing tacks" for fore-and aft sails. Yet they are "short pieces of rope" for square sails, which are described as reefing lines or buntlines, earlier. The illustration has the points as the holes and the short pieces of rope as the lines. Glossary of nautical terms (M–Z)#R supports the short pieces of rope version with its references.

It seems that some clarification is needed: Either there is an archaic and a modern set of terms that apply and should be highlighted as such, or there is an authoritative set of terms that should be made uniform in the article, or there is inconsistency among authoritative sources about what terms apply, which should be explained in the article.

Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 15:02, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I thought long and hard before doing anything to this article. The sources I had to hand, beyond the Practical Boat Owner article that I added as a new ref, were Harland,[1] Tom Cunliffe[2], and David Nichols.[3] I also took a look at the PBO glossary[1] Since seeing this talk page post I have also studied Roger Barnes' book[4]. What worried me is that the article had a usage of nautical English that seemed outside the normal boundaries. The sources that I have listed above cover: modern yacht cruising (PBO, glossary and article), traditional craft in use and being built today (Barnes and Cunliffe), dinghy cruising (Barnes and Nichols), historic sailing technology (Harland).
I think the article could do with a general rewrite. Firstly, we need to avoid any criticism of WP:NOTHOW. Then, after a lead that covers the basics and a summary of modern methods, the history and variety of reefing might make the whole subject make a lot more sense. Without detailed research (which would, of course, need to be done) we have the Mediterranean square rig of Classical antiquity with multiple brails led through the archaeologically distinctive brail rings, Viking sailing vessels with reef points that would be familiar to a modern traditional dinghy-sailer, but these are in the lower part of these square sails (contrast with square rig in its later form), then Medieval into the mid 17th century with ships having bonnets added to the bottom of sails, whilst boats continued with reefing points. Then there was a big revolution with the maritime technology of ships, with the lower yards generally remaining in their hoisted position whether the sail was set or not, topsails becoming the main working sail (first to set, last to be handed – this development relied on the introduction of the topmast backstay), reefing points appearing on topsails (not like the Viking sail, but with the reefs taken in the upper part of the sail), the martnet being replaced with the leechline, footropes being invented (first instance 1642) – all of this centred around c. 1650. Later we have Cunningham patent reefing (essentially roller reefing for square sails). Also, there's roller reefing of fore-and-aft sails – see the Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter for this being used on the mainsail of a working boat (though it did give a risk of breaking the boom in tough conditions). Somewhere I have seen the early history of roller furling and roller reefing headsails (the difference is important and confuses some). It's earlier than you think (if memory serves). Somewhere in all of this, we need to include the practice of "half-masting" the topsails instead of reefing them. [5] is the reference for this practice from the 17th century.
I think that history section could be covered quite concisely and I cannot think of anywhere else in Wikipedia for it all to be brought together. Therefore the article would be worthy of a number of links from other historical sailing articles. If the description of modern methods, essentially slab reefing and the various forms of roller reefing, are early in the article, then I don't think it will bother anyone who does not wish to read further.
It would be a bit of work to put it all together, so I am not sure on when I would take it on – presuming that there are no obvious objections. ThoughtIdRetired TIR 19:43, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
From one of the sources listed above (Nichols, I think) we have the issue of the centre of effort of a Bermuda rig mainsail moving forward as it is reefed. This contrasts with some of the traditional rigs (Nichols is writing about replacing Bermuda with sprit, gaff or lug) where the roughly rectangular shape means that the centre of effort does not move significantly as you reef. There may well be other technical points to consider. ThoughtIdRetired TIR 19:52, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I hadn't thought that globally, TIR. I'm glad that you have. I support your concept and will be happy to assist, when you decide to move forward. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 20:45, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
To add to the notes on sail reduction, there is a primary ref for the "half-masting" of topsails in the 17th century: Narbrough's Journal (Navy Records Society), pg 91, and should be able to find a van de Velde painting illustrating this practice.ThoughtIdRetired TIR 23:11, 22 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Harland, John (2015). Seamanship in the age of sail : an account of shiphandling of the sailing man-o-war, 1600-1860. London. ISBN 978-1-8448-6309-9.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link)
  2. ^ Cunliffe, Tom (2016). Hand, Reef and Steer: Traditional Sailing Skills for Classic Boats (second ed.). Adlard Coles. ISBN 978-1472925220.
  3. ^ Nichols, David L (2014). The Working Guide to Traditional Small-Boat Sails: A How-To Handbook for Owners and Builders. Halcottsville, NY: Breakaway Book. ISBN 9781621240174.
  4. ^ Barnes, Roger (2014). The Dinghy Cruising Companion: Tales and Advice from Sailing in a Small Open Boat (Kindle ed.). Oxford: Adlard Coles. ISBN 978-1408179161.
  5. ^ Burningham, Nick (April 2001). "Learning to sail the Duyfken replica". International Journal of Nautical Archaeology. 30 (1): 74–85. doi:10.1111/j.1095-9270.2001.tb01357.x.
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