Talk:Saint Maurice

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The coptic orthodox synaxsarium does mention saint maurice in 25th of Thout in coptic calendar as it is mentioned in the service it is in arabic and somehow it is not translated to english in every version I read — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.186.201.118 (talk) 08:10, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

The statue of Saint Maurice was stolen by Hurricane Katrina looters?

I suspect that this claim is just a racial joke added by some vandal (if Maurice was black in the New Orleans statue). Is there a source for this information? MoritzB 18:05, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

None that I've found. I've tagged it as citation needed, and will remove it if a citation isn't added after the required period. John Carter 19:21, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Here we go

People using old history, remember, old historians lived in a time of marked white supremacism and colonialism. Do you REALLY expect an un-biased view from such a period? Seriously, POV people. Even from 'scholarly' articles -please note the time period at which it was written.

For example would you use an article or documentary from Fox news on the evils of Islam (post 2001) and seriously say that it was non-pov?

Use your heads a little. 66.130.189.213 (talk) 07:33, 24 August 2010 (UTC) Somebody keep updating the article by embedding a race related issues instead of discussing the issue of the article. The picture of Saint Maurice Coptic icon was removed from the article without any reason (maybe because it doesn't show him as a black man). The people south of Egypt are know as Nubians (ethnic minority in Egypt) and not as black Egyptians. Nubia were not part from ancient Egypt but rather independent country, whihc was later invaded by Thutmose III.It Invaded Egypt later and control it for a short period before the Assyrian and Persian invasion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.95.152.175 (talk) 15:29, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The Coptic icon was removed not because it isn't black, but because it is not what St Maurice looked like. The image displayed next to Otto 1st in the temple that bears Maurice's name is what he looked like. You cannot remove from history that which really happened. Unless you destroy St Maurice's temple you will always have to deal with the truth popping up. And you should also study Petrie for Egypt being riddled with Nubians since it's inception. You might also read Baldwin and Rawlinson as well. Tom 10/14/10 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.220.44.56 (talk) 22:37, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

what "truth"? You mean "facts", such as the fact that Saint Maurice was depicted as a black knight in medieval Germany. What on Earth does this have to do with your "Coptic icon"? --dab (𒁳) 14:34, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Not less plausible than a Nubian from the IIth AD depicted as a knight in a XVIth German armour — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A03F:5018:7100:6949:CF92:DA83:5441 (talk) 08:35, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your intense push

the sad fact is that history is just that history, but this powerful push to discredit any and all things even remotely black has finally begun to no longer shock me as much as it use to. and as a filmmaker and history buff of sorts myself you( referring to all the doubting poster's on this subject) and the anglo male POV that insist with out actually saying it that an entire race of people who have been here from- the start of mankind has never had any historical high points of any kind and have never been great in any way further proves how insane even seemly well read men can be. but what i would really like to thank you for is helping find a cause in witch invest my talents into, i have grown up enjoying and accepting the historical fantasy of popular euro males hero and never thought twice about it but when any story shows a black in any remotely powerful tale here comes the -thousands words per second naysayers on a unpaid mission to shoot it down with all their verbal might -sad but a fact i have to deal with and use as fuel -so again thank you ........ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.189.246.191 (talk) 10:08, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

You should spend some time at Wikipedia. The zeal with which the "black power" folk push the most ludicrous made-up fantasy is difficult to top by any "euro male hero" fantasy. I don't know what it is with African Americans and their "Egypt" obsession. Actually I do know, this is a piece of far out ideology pushed by some people in Senegal in the mid 20th century, and suddenly "Egypt" is identical to "Africa". And then they apparently thought that being rude and loud and constantly playing the "race card" on "white guilt" would somehow hide the fact that they have no case and no scholarship to show and instead just keep making shit up as they go along. This makes about as much sense as an Italian embracing the Japanese as their chosen and glorified race and berating any passing African who dares to point out that Italy and Japan are not directly comparable.

"Moor" meant "black person" in medieval Germany, which is why in the 13th century Saint Maurice was depicted as a black man. The end. --dab (𒁳) 14:39, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps you should order a copy of National Geographic Feb 2008 edition. It focused a lead article on the Black Pharoahs of Egypt. It leads off with Taharqa who was both king in Ethiopia and Pharoah in Egypt simmultaneously. He's also the only pharoah that the Bible calls by name twice in Isaiah 37:9 and II Kings 19:9. Black history is not made up. Tom 10/17/2014 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1015:B012:9BF0:B988:8AC0:5517:AE8C (talk) 23:07, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

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The Brotherhood of Blackheads

The Brotherhood of Blackheads. This name is obviously a translation and ridiculous to an English reader. I wonder whether an alternative wording can be devised.truthordare (talk) 23:19, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

"Physical Characteristics"

Like, we're not talking about the shape of this guy's toes. The title should reflect what the section is really about, which is Maurice being a Black African man and white supremacist society having loudly-expressed but poorly-sourced "doubts".
So, maybe it could be changed to something like "Representations of Maurice's Race" or "Portrayals of Maurice as a Black African man". 174.115.100.93 (talk) 19:33, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Saint Maurice is represented as a "black man" only in the German tradition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A03F:6B8E:EE00:75C8:25E3:2DDB:D905 (talk) 12:31, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

All the sources provided are from more modern eras, long after Maurice died. I see no contemporary sources discussing how he was viewed "racially" during his own lifetime and none of our modern racial constructed labels would've even applied to him anyway. Tons of historical figures have been called "The Black" or something to that effect even though they were of European descent or in some cases Near East Asian ancestry IIRC. Keep in mind that despite the ancient Romans and Germanic tribes being considered the same "race" today as they're both European ethnicities, this sort of kinship did not exist while they alive. No more than the modern-day Japanese people considering any of not full Japanese descent to be a mixed-race "Hafu", even if a Japanese citizen is of full East Asian or "Yellow Asiatic" or "Mongoloid" descent like being half-Japanese/half-Han Chinese.

After all, when Saint Maurice was alive, the term "Asian" referred to the Roman Province of Asia, in modern-day Turkey, not to China or America's modern construction of being "Asian descent", which largely refer to East Asians or people historically considered "Yellow Asiatics" or "Mongoloids". And until the early modern era, the first European explorers in East Asia described the Japanese as being "white people" because of their light skin. They never referred to them as being "Yellow [Asiatics]", "Mongoloids", etc until well into the peak of European imperialism (you can find this in books like "Becoming Yellow").

Some sources provided discuss how Maurice has been given a Eurocentric appearance while others describe him as being darker-skinned. It appears to vary depending on culture or context. Furthermore, his depictions as cited in the section changed even more during the early modern era and the Transatlantic slave trade. So all of this anger over a "race" debate over historical figures born centuries before modern racial labels were more solidified is rather odd.

Furthermore, I'm not really sure if medieval Germanic rulers depicting Saint Maurice as someone of darker-skin would align with the modern, 21st century American definitions of "black identity". Clear Looking Glass (talk) 07:54, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Coptic and Oriental Orthodoxy

It isn't clear to me if, or how, Saint Maurice is venerated in the Coptic or other Oriental Orthodox Churches. There's a link to Copticchurch.net in the External links, and elsewhere on that website there is an article about St. Maurice, but toward the very end of the page it says "There is no entry in the Coptic Synxarion for these saints, neither is their any Coptic Church concecrated in their names" (apparently, as of 1992) (link). Copticchurch.net is affiliated with an actual church, so I would consider it to be a reliable source. Meanwhile I found websites for three Coptic churches named (or co-named) for St. Maurice; again one of these websites says "There is no mentioning in the Coptic Synxarium of these saints, however, there is a number of new churches and altars that are erected in 20th. century and beyond." (link). I assume, but really don't know, that if he were mentioned in the Synaxarium, then that mean's he's venerated, but since he isn't, he's not. (Or maybe I'm just overthinking the term "venerate".) As for other Oriental Orthodox churches, I'm not personally aware (for what that's worth) that he is venerated (or otherwise mentioned) in the Ethiopian Orthodox church, and there's no interwiki link from this article to the Amharic Wikipedia (nor to other Ethiopian-language Wikipedias). I had placed {{Fact}} in the article but I will update it based on what I've just found. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 23:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

The text that I'd tagged with {{Clarify}} has since been removed from the article, but it was still in the Infobox. As a result "Oriental Orthodox" was not otherwise mentioned, much less sourced, in the article. Since the {{Clarify}} tag breaks the Infobox (at least, as it's currently configured), I have removed "Oriental Orthodox" from there. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:29, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

In Popular Culture section for Pentiment

In the game Pentiment, Saint Moritz is the patron saint of the town of Tassing, where the game takes place. I was wondering if that is notable enough for it to be added to this wiki page. Hagamablabla (talk) 01:42, 7 December 2022 (UTC)