Talk:South Yemen

Discuss

Before I want to ask "how you know if south Yemen isn't state atheism? Syahran Javier A.T (talk) 06:57, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

read the source cited Abo Yemen✉ 07:19, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 24 October 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Per consensus. – robertsky (talk) 16:38, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

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South Yemen → People's Democratic Republic of Yemen – South Yemen (becomes) → South Yemen (Disambiguation) (or keeps its current name and becomes a disambiguation page)

– The political term South Yemen had referred to multiple historical states other than the PDRY, whose official short form name was Democratic Yemen and not South Yemen, like the british Aden Protectorate, the two british South Arabias (The Federation of South Arabia and the Emirates of South Arabia) the People's Republic of Southern Yemen (which used the official short form "Southern Yemen" and not "South Yemen"; I would also propose splitting it from this article as it was more of a nasserist republic and not a marxist one like the PDRY but that's a discussion for another day), the PDRY (of course), the breakaway state of the Democratic Republic of Yemen, and the new separatists (the Hirak (Southern Movement), the STC, and others) that use that term interchangeably with South Arabia. All these previous states should be reffered to in the disamb page

I am also proposing this change to make the North/South Etymology consistent on wikipedia as the page North Yemen, which is a disamb page, links to the former states of the Yemen Arab Republic and the Kingdom of Yemen Abo Yemen✉ 10:46, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Socialism, WikiProject Former countries, WikiProject Politics, WikiProject Cold War, WikiProject Arab world, and WikiProject Yemen have been notified of this discussion. Abo Yemen✉ 11:20, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support move of South Yemen to People’s Democratic Republic of Yemen due to the above, and to make South Yemen a disambiguation page due to there being multiple states that existed there and to make it consistent with North Yemen. |MK| 📝 09:19, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. Changing (removing) the primary topic is not clarifying. In the current situation, North Yemen and South Yemen do parallel each other. People need to correctly know how the term "South Yemen" is actually used in English. Srnec (talk) 20:09, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - sounds like an effort to establish "consistency" by creating an unnecessary disambiguation page and complicating things far more than they need to be. The Southern Movement is never known as the "South Yemen Movement" [1]. I haven't found any reference to the STC using the term to apply to themselves, nor has the nominator provided any evidence to support the claim that the actual country of South Yemen isn't the most common application of the term. Feel free to create South Yemen (disambiguation) as proposed, but I don't see any reason to remove the primary topic. estar8806 (talk) ★ 20:12, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:COMMONNAME: inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources. This article talks almost completely about the Marxist rule of the Marxist faction of the NLF and the socialist party who both used "Democratic Yemen" as an official name (even used by the United Nations) after the 1969 corrective move. The closest official name to "South Yemen" was the PRSY's official short name "Southern Yemen". The PRSY is barely mentioned in this article and had a very different ruling style than the Marxist faction of the NLF which later formed the YSP. Let's say that we split the PRSY and PDRY into different articles as it has enough sources to be an article on its own, are we going to have a People's Republic of Southern Yemen (Which was referred to as "South Yemen" by rs), South Yemen (PDRY), and the later Democratic Republic of Yemen (Which was ALSO referred to as "South Yemen" by rs)? how does this make it less complicated? Plus since when was violating Wikipedia:Verifiability to make something look less complicated than it actually is a good reason to oppose? Abo Yemen✉ 06:47, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

It's the same country regardless of the change in ruling party. It was "a state from 1967 to 1990". It's like South Vietnam, a state that also underwent constitutional change (in 1967). If the current article is split into two as you propose then we can revisit the question of making a South Yemen dab page like the one for the north, but your suggestion of a dab page that contains the British protectorates and the Southern Movement is a non-starter to me: that's just not what the term South Yemen is ever likely to refer to. Like North and South Vietnam or North and South Korea, they speak to a very particular historical period. They are not like northern(ern) and south(ern) Vietnam/Korea/Yemen. Srnec (talk) 20:47, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Im pretty sure that i've read and watched multiple british sources calling the protectorates as "South(-ern sometimes) Yemen" Abo Yemen✉ 07:20, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Collectively? We have no article on British South Arabia. We have individual articles on Aden Colony, Aden Province, Aden Protectorate, Protectorate of South Arabia, Federation of the Emirates of South Arabia, Federation of South Arabia. I don't see how listing all of these at a dab page for the term 'South Yemen' would be helpful. It seems to me the term comes into use (in English) only in the period after 1963, with the rise of the Front for the Liberation of Occupied South Yemen. Now, perhaps a framework article on British South Arabia would be useful... Perhaps you should create South Yemen (disambiguation) so people can see exactly what you have in mind, but I don't think a long dab page is helpful to the average reader who just wants to see what the 'South Yemen' he has encountered in his reading is. Srnec (talk) 17:48, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

FYI me and another editor are planning on this writing this up in the future Draft:History of Yemen under the British Abo Yemen✉ 17:43, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Blind assertions of reliable sources using a certain name are, to be rather blunt, worthless when no evidence is provided. Those kinds of blind assertions are even less valuable to the RM process when is only "pretty sure" they exist. estar8806 (talk) ★ 18:31, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

I could have sworn that i've seen those sources somewhere but I couldn't find them. I am going to strike my reply tho Abo Yemen✉ 06:57, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose South Yemen is the common name of the People's Democratic Republic of Yemen, which in turn is the primary topic of that title. What we should be doing (IMO) is merging Kingdom of Yemen and Yemen Arab Republic into a single article covering the entire history of that country, instead of having no single article on that country. Number 57 20:01, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

  please leave those articles alone. They are very different historical periods that deserve their own article. You could do what the Arabic page did as a disamb (translated version of the page) Abo Yemen✉ 07:00, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose – I understand the rationale but disagree with the proposal. It seems to me that the scope of this article is the former sovereign state commonly known in English as South Yemen. Proposing such a move and a change in scope with technical details is not helpful to the average reader and probably more confusing. It's the reason why proposals to move country articles to their official country names have failed in the past, e.g. China → PRC, Taiwan → ROC, North Korea → DPRK, etc. Yue🌙 05:45, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. Very clear common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

  how did you know that the term is commonly used to refer to the PDRY and not the PRSY? or maybe the DRY? Abo Yemen✉ 16:31, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

text font

@Skitash please explain special:diff/1267511037 Abo Yemen✉ 12:44, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

I replaced the images with the appropriate language template, as I found their use unusual given that no other article does it this way. Additionally, the standard Arabic font is more readable. Skitash (talk) 12:49, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

That font was used in everything in South Yemen and that's why I thought that it was appropriate to use. Plus if you (not you skitash) cant read that simple font are you really Arab? Abo Yemen✉ 14:23, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

I changed it for consistency with other articles that include native names in Arabic, but feel free to change it back if you prefer. Skitash (talk) 14:31, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

South Yemen wasn't like the other Arab states so it would make sense to have a different font /j. But for real now if there isn't a MOS (that I know of) that prevents this then I'm going to restore the SVG font Abo Yemen✉ 14:50, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

"Republic of South Arabia" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Republic of South Arabia has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 January 11 § Republic of South Arabia until a consensus is reached. Abo Yemen✉ 09:55, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

"SYE"

@Raynore329 where does that term appear exactly because it is my first time seeing it 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 17:55, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

"South Arabian Republic" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect South Arabian Republic has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 February 1 § South Arabian Republic until a consensus is reached. Jay 💬 12:43, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Also bundled at the same nomination are:

South Arabian People's Republic

South Arabian People's Democratic Republic

South Arabian PR

South Arabian PDR

DPR of South Arabia

DPR South Arabia

South Arabian DPR

South Arabian Democratic People's Republic

PR South Arabia

PR of South Arabia

PDR South Arabia

PDR of South Arabia

People's Democratic Republic of South Arabia

People's Republic of South Arabia, and

Democratic People's Republic of South Arabia

Jay 💬 13:02, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

@Explicit: DPR South Arabia was left out. I had tagged it for RfD on Feb 1st, but it got missed out from the Feb 1st page I guess. Can you delete it as a G6? Jay 💬 06:50, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

Peer review

South Yemen

I've listed this article for peer review because I want to know what should i do to turn this article into a GA.

Thanks, Abo Yemen✉ 06:07, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Comments from Z1720

Comments after a quick skim:

• "In addition to all that was the sheikhdoms' differences over the who should be the president of the federation." Needs a citation, although this is an awkward sentence and might need to be reworded.
• The "British rule and decolonization" is quite long. Is there a way to split this with new level 3 settings?
• "However, these plans were put on hold in 1979, as the PDRY funded Red rebels in the YAR, and war was only prevented by an Arab League intervention. The goal of unity was reaffirmed by the northern and southern heads of state during a summit meeting in Kuwait in March 1979." Needs a citation
• "His successor, Ali Nasir Muhammad, took a less interventionist stance toward both North Yemen and neighbouring Oman." Needs a citation.
• What is the history of the region after reunification? Is it an independent administrative area?
• The "Demographics" section is quite short, and from 2000. Any updates on its demographics today? Any census data to pull from?
• "Legislature and judiciary" and "Sports" are uncited and will need citations.
• "The national budget was 13.43 million dinars in 1976, and the gross national product was US$650 - 500 million. The total national debt was $52.4 million." Needs a citation.
• Second paragraph in "Oil" needs a citation.
• Citation for Aden Airlines should probably be at the end of the bullet point if it verifies the information.
• "Alyemda – Democratic Yemen Airlines (1961–1996). Joined Yemenia, the airline of the former YAR" Needs a citation.
• Many citations are used multiple times but have separate food notes, like "Fred Haliday Revolution and Foreign Policy: The Case of South Yemen, 1967-1987 p.25". These should be merged.
• There's an error message for the "Reuters (23 May 1990)." ref that needs to be resolved
• All websites should have access dates.
• Suggest archiving the websites using IA Bot.

Hope this helps. Z1720 (talk) 02:45, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Comments from CMD

• The lead is mostly history, it should be a summary of the whole article. It is missing coverage of four sections and mentions of all included subsections. If needed, condense and combine the two history paragraphs.
• Some copyediting is needed in the History section, difficult to make specific suggestions without access to the sources but this may come up in a GAN. The comparisons with Germany and Korea are odd as the histories involved seem different.
• The Demographics section reads as completely off-topic. If the subject is the 1967-1990 entity, stats from 2000 do not seem too helpful. The History section mentions some demographics in Aden, what happened to those people? Is there any information about education systems, health systems, age and gender distributions? Move living standards up from Politics perhaps.
• Politics has a bit more information but still shows a lot of gaps, and a lot of unsourced current text. One of the most obvious gaps is the civil war, the politics section should cover political differences such as the tensions were that led up to the war.
• Administrative divisions should cover what powers were exercised at each level of government.
• A brief Geography section would likely be useful, which could include changes such as the loss of Kamaran.
• Culture seems another missing section, the shift from traditional rule towards communist governance surely had some cultural impact on the population.

These are broad comments, but they indicate the areas the article can grow towards, shifting perhaps from the current focus on History and Oil to a more rounded product. Best, CMD (talk) 07:39, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Improvements

@Abo Yemen: I'll clean up the refs and consistently format them, which I've already partially done. Grumpylawnchair (talk) 21:58, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

Aight bet. Tell me when you're done so that we don't get into edit conflicts 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 22:02, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

Sure! Grumpylawnchair (talk) 22:06, 23 March 2025 (UTC)

@Grumpylawnchair we should probably divide tasks between each other so that we can finish this faster 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:02, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Yes, could you expand the lead? I'm rubbish at those. I'll cover all the ref-relatd issues from the peer review. Grumpylawnchair (talk) 15:10, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

I think the lead should be left for last as it is supposed to be a summary of the article. Ill try to fix up the history section issues from the pr first 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:46, 24 March 2025 (UTC)