Talk:Syrian Armed Forces

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SAAF is now a historical (defunct) organisation

This should be split from the article just like the likes of the Soviet Armed Forces, the new article covering the period between the establishment of the Syrian Arab Republic and its fall. 94.246.147.217 (talk) 08:51, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This was not done for the Afghan Armed Force. Thus far the country is still called the Syrian Arab Republic, so there is no reason why the name of the armed forces should change unless further specified. It is too early to tell at this point. 75.102.237.167 (talk) 18:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No it was done in the case of Afghanistan where an entire page is dedicated to the military history of the country during the American presence. Just see: History of the Afghan Armed Forces (2002–2021). Hamza A. Durrani (talk) 16:37, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes to split: I think there should be a split. Because I can see other pages that are dedicated to armed forces of overthrown or deposed governments, like the Armed Forces of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya and Armed Forces of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. In my opinion the page should be renamed as the Armed Forces of Ba'athist Syria or Syrian Arab Armed Forces (1963/1966/1970–2024) Hamza A. Durrani (talk) 16:54, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support of a split: The new Syrian leadership has already confirmed that the new military will be formed from rebel militias. Whether any parts of the old military (including division names etc.) will be kept at all has to be seen, but the SAF has largely ceased to exist either way. The next Syrian military will be a new formation. Applodion (talk) 20:44, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose a split - this is the baseline Military of Syria page, which serves as the root page for all Syrian MOD forces under all regimes since Syria was created by the French and British. It is *not* just about Hafaz and BAshir Al-Assad's time. There is not enough reliable information about any new force to create a separate article that would match WP:SIZERULE - over 30 kB of readable prose size. If more information takes the size of this page over 150 kB readable prose size, there could be a *separate*, split out page for the Syrian Arab Armed Forces, but that would *not* be a move because we need a root page for all the Syrian Armed Forces since the country was created. We would copy over text and separate the SAAF page. Libya is an unfortunate exception that occurs nowhere else - not for Germany; not for Afghanistan; not for Congo; not for Iraq (see Iraqi Armed Forces); not for France; etc. The Soviet Armed Forces are *not* a comparable example, as many borders moved, creating Russia, Ukraine, etc.
I created History of the Afghan Armed Forces (2002–2021) which is a *sub-page* for a specific period of the Afghan Armed Forces, rather like British Army during the Second World War or United States Army in World War II. But these pages are only justified because there is enough new text - right now there is barely a paragraph about the new armed forces. Buckshot06 (talk) 11:02, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
'Support a split - Seems much cleaner imho Cononsense (talk) 21:51, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support a split - since this is a consistent title as argued by Hamza A. Durrani.

The most precise title would be "Armed Forces of Ba'athist Syria", as this would avoid confusion to the readers. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 03:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How would you say it was WP:CONSISTENT? Can you show any references anywhere for "Armed Forces of Ba'athist Syria"? WP strives for usage of WP:RELIABLE sources; we should not create titles that have never existed. Buckshot06 (talk) 07:12, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Upon consideration I have split out Syrian Arab Armed Forces, which is a subperiod of the history of the Syrian Armed Forces in toto; I suggest that further discussion can take place on the new talkpage Talk:Syrian Arab Armed Forces#Split made December 2024. Unreferenced material does not have a place in Wikipedia and can be removed speedily without discussion. Buckshot06 (talk) 07:36, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Content should be actually moved out from there, not just copied over and then duplicating itself in 2 articles. That should also include almost all of the old (not just current) infobox.

That's incorrect. Everything at Syrian Arab Armed Forces, a subperiod of the SAF's history, has every right to remain at Syrian Armed Forces; infoboxes belong at national military articles, not subperiod articles. The title "Syrian Arab Armed Forces" also needs to be referenced for the time period claimed, whichever that is. Unreferenced material can be removed. Buckshot06 (talk) 01:02, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HTS versus new armed forces

Dear Ecpiandy apologies for having to revert your edit. I have structured this article, the Military of Syria baseline article, as the continuing and permanent article devoted to the state armed forces of Syria since it gained full independence from the French in 1946. Meanwhile Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham is a Syrian Civil War militia group; now it is running the government, its new armed forces are correctly described here. Buckshot06 (talk) 20:54, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's not consistent with how pages of other combined military forces of various states are titled in wiki.

Various iterations of the Syrian state's military forces are expanded the "Military history of Syria" page. The page "Syrian Armed Forces" is about the latest version of Syrian state's combined military forces. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 11:37, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your argument is incorrect, especially regarding the Soviet Armed Forces - split into the successor states (Russian Armed Forces; Military of Belarus; Military of Ukraine; Military of Georgia) etc. Crucial factor - territorial boundary change. You will see that the Afghan Armed Forces covers the entire history since the 1700s; the Military of the Democratic Republic of the Congo since 1960 and the preceding Force publique; the Iraqi Armed Forces since the 1930s, etc. Contrast the unchanged territorial boundaries. Yes subarticles exist, but the root Military of X always covers the entire existence of the state.

Also think about the *definition* of the word "military." That covers the armed forces in toto, completely, from the beginning of the entity called "Syria." We abstract the sub-articles, including Syrian Arab Armed Forces, here. Obviously, details now cascade down to the subarticles, but to chop off everything before 2024 here cuts out the essential context. It is really important to note, among other things, the staggeringly important political role the Syrian Army has had, coup after coup after coup, throughout the existence of the state. Buckshot06 (talk) 22:07, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Foreign suppliers" section outdated

Both sources for it are from the 2010s (before Assad's fall), and certain nations like Russia are obviously not supplying the anti-Assad government's armed forces. As such, new sources and info should be added to this section of the article as soon as possible. LordOfWalruses (talk) 04:00, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]