User talk:Sbaio

POV

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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With all due respect, it is not wp:pov if an editor has an interest in a team. For example NY hockey and basketball teams. In a band. In a political country. In a genre of music. In a country. In an ethnicity. In a religion. And edits spurred by that to add proper RS-supported edits to text.Your deletions on the basis that an editor's edits "are based on single ethnic group so it's clearly POV" are unfounded. I suggest, if after reviewing wp:pov you disagree, that we have a discussion with others on that talk page.

Also, contrary to your suggestion, IP edits are fine. As long as they are appropriate. They are not lesser nor better than non-IP edits. If you disagree, and continue to revert IP edits on the basis of a contrary belief, I suggest that we also have a discussion on the appropriate WP page.

I hope that you are having a good week. Best. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:6103:B31A:D0F4:8A0E (talk) 23:09, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Would you mind responding to the above at your earliest convenience, please? Everything that is brought up by the IP editor is correct. I haven't checked your edits, but if they were based on the rationale as conveyed above, I suggest that you self-revert. Schwede66 23:45, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

@Schwede66: The IP is lying to make me look bad by making unfounded accusations, which is a personal attack. Nowhere did I say that "IP edits are bad", which IP claims about me. The IP also wrote that ...an editor who has to my surprise stripped RS-supported mention of Leibowitz from half a dozen articles today..., which is also false, because that was five pages and all of it was trivia based on a specific person or group of people. In addition, the IP is adding trivial information like in this edit. Trading Jewish player for another Jewish player is not different from Italian-for-Italian or American-for-American trade. Such additions might be suitable for specific team season pages (and even that would most likely not be suitable), but it certainly does not belong in main team page. – sbaio 04:27, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Right, if it's a straight content dispute, then I'll stay out of it and will let you haggle it out. Thanks for taking the time to respond; that's much appreciated. Schwede66 04:31, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Sbaio, perhaps it's best if we take your deletions one by one. So as to not overload you, let's start with just your first one, and the rationale you indicate your deletion was based on.

First, in this revert that you made, you left the edit summary "there's absolutely no reason to single out specific ethinicty + all your edits are based on single ethnic group so it's clearly POV."

The text that you deleted said "In December 1967 guard Barry Leibowitz was traded by the Pittsburgh Pipers to the New Jersey Americans for Art Heyman (the first overall pick in the first round of the 1963 NBA draft); the Miami News called it "one of the few straight-Jewish-player trades in sports history."

My comments above about your rationale -- specifically, your assertion as to what the WP policy wp:pov calls for, apply to this. I might point out that what you pointed out, and the portion of the text that you deleted text that you appear to focus on, is not me stating my opinion, but reflecting -- with, importantly, in-text attribution, a factual statement that is verifiable and appropriately cited to an RS, all in accord with policy. You may subjectively be of the view that the trade is the same as other trades; but the RS appears to view things differently, and as with notability it is generally a good policy to look to the RSs rather than delete text based on our personal subjective views. BTW, we have categories and lists about such groups on WP, which is worth considering perhaps when you assert that in your personal view inclusion of individuals in such groups is of not importance. WP, as well as this RS, seem to have a somewhat different view. --2603:7000:2101:AA00:68DC:B5F2:BF14:8F0C (talk) 16:53, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

I am very well aware what I reverted so there is absolutely no need to repeat it to me.

Only one source that you listed seems to be reliable. The "Jews in Sports" source should be investigated, because it probably mirrors Wikipedia. The "Observer Reporter" is a newspaper so it seems reliable. The "Terry Crowley" source is a personal blog so it is surely unreliable as it does not support its claims with sources. You mixed three sources and used the unreliable source ("Terry Crowley") to support the claim.

In addition, that addition is too trivial to be on main team page (and most likely team's season page). It might be suitable for individual player pages, but that is also questionable.

And yes, what you attempted to add is POV, because a trade involving two Jewish players (I will repeat that you used an unreliable source for that) does not differ from a trade involving two American or two Italian players. – sbaio 18:50, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

The reason that I am reflecting your edit summary and what you deleted, in this first of your series of deletions, is so that we (and anyone viewing this) can easily see what is under discussion. Rather than just a characterization of it.

Here, your precise rationale was expressed in your edit summary.

To again keep our focus bite-sized and thereby manageable, let's first look at the first 33 words that you deleted.

Your rationale does not explain your deletion of "In December 1967 guard Barry Leibowitz was traded by the Pittsburgh Pipers to the New Jersey Americans for Art Heyman (the first overall pick in the first round of the 1963 NBA draft)." There is nothing in that text which you deleted that touches on ethnicity. So that should be easy for you to see reason to restore, I would think--you deleted it without providing any even arguably applicable rationale.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7000:2101:AA00:68DC:B5F2:BF14:8F0C (talk) 19:55, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

I am archiving this discussion, because your failure to understand why your additions do not belong there is wasting everyone's time. - sbaio 03:21, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

References

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.