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Plans to get rid of more than a thousand articles about cricketers

Also, how you can help:

I'm sure most of you remember the WP:LUGSTUBS2 discussions. Some editors are trying to move forward with mass removal. One of them has produced lists of cricketers split by nationality on the village pump. Please take a look at these and try to add at least one non-database-type source to each of the listed articles. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:36, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

Of the articles with the template Special draft pending, five are categorised as international cricketers so should be easy to source - Chandi Wickramasinghe Ankur Vasishta, Collette McGuiness, Champa Sugathadasa and Bilal Shah. Hack (talk) 03:09, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

I've worked through the list of 50 British cricketers. Several have already had sourcing added, and there are some that strike me as definite possibilities if anyone has the time or inclination (mainly Essex, Gloucestershire, and Surrey):

• David Gray (cricketer) – redirect to List of Cambridge University Cricket Club players#G for now. There's brief text at CricInfo and an obituary in 2004 Wisden, albeit brief. I imagine a suitably detailed search would probably find more on him (war service, Winchester, Cambridge). I imagine this could be extended
• Arthur Johnston (cricketer) – a candidate for expansion. Played rugby at a high level and there's a prose paragraph in CricInfo already. I suspect sources could be found. Initially I might redirect to List of Essex County Cricket Club players#J as he played the majority of his cricket for Essex
• Alison White (cricketer) – redirect to List of Gloucestershire County Cricket Club players#W initially. Notes say he won the DSO in 1916 and went to Cheltenham and Cambridge. Seems to have later been known as Gordon-White. Born at Sydney NSW. Seems likely that there's more detail here
• Charles Edwards (English cricketer) – certainly has the potential for development. Brief Wisden obit, but he was a colonel in the RASC, MC in 1917 and DSO in 1919. Went to Cheltenham. Born in South Africa. We could initially redirect to List of Gloucestershire County Cricket Club players#E, but this is certainly ripe for expansion
• Arthur Newnham – also played in India and for the Gentlemen. There's quite a detailed obit at Wisden. Army, lt-col, serving mainly abroad. Captained Malvern, so chances are more sources exist. We could redirect to List of Gloucestershire County Cricket Club players#N initially, but I'm fairly certain more sources exist
• Charles Morgan (Surrey cricketer) – quite a detailed Wisden obit and the chances are there will be others. We could redirect in the short term, but I imagine there is enough to develop the article. The redirect would be to List of Surrey County Cricket Club players#M
• Alfred Bashford – the prose at CricInfo suggests that more will be found here – church, Merchant Taylors, hockey, Cambridge etc... CricketArchive adds some detail and there's a brief Wisden obit. We could redirect to List of Middlesex County Cricket Club players#B in the short term, but there are almost certainly sources here
• Barrie Bennett – redirect to List of Cambridge University Cricket Club players#B. Seems to have been in the army so there may be more here
• Cecil Booth (cricketer) – redirect to List of Cambridge University Cricket Club players#B. Played for Surrey Second XI and presumably there will be war service, but nothing obviously stands out
• Charles Brereton (cricketer) – redirect to List of Cambridge University Cricket Club players#B. Was at Marlborough and the name is one of those that crops up in Norfolk sources, so there may well be something there
• Charles Calvert (Cambridge University cricketer) – redirect to List of Cambridge University Cricket Club players#C. Captained Shrewsbury, so there would well be some more to be found
• Alexander Cox (cricketer) – redirect to List of Cambridge University Cricket Club players#C probably. His brief Wisden obit says he was a "well known racehorse owner" so, given when he was alive, there may well be enough sources. Was at Harrow

This is copied from Wikipedia talk:Lugstubs 2 list. I've already gone through a lot of New Zealanders, and I think every Australian is a least a redirect Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:36, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

• For all the ones that have plausible redirects to team list articles, it makes so much more sense to redirect them rather than draftify them, as an WP:ATD. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:11, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

• Yes. This was mentioned several times in the original discussion I think. The alternative seems to be that it's moved to draft, I move it back - duplicating the article as the draft is not deleted -, and then redirect the article. Which seems a tonne of work. Redirect is what would almost certainly happen at an AfD I think Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:01, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Not sure how helpful it is to have the lists at the Village Pump. Should there be a WP:Cric subpage for this? Also isn't very useful to have them in very long lists of 170 players. Did someone already clear letters E onwards? Anyway, here is the Australian list broken down into players by state, which could be useful if we are to just redirect them to the state by state lists of cricketers. The-Pope (talk) 17:12, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for breaking the Australians down – that's really helpful. The British list is at Wikipedia talk:Lugstubs 2 list#British list. I'm currently working through the New Zealanders at User:Blue Square Thing/sandbox3#NZ – have 5 Wellingtonians, 16 Canterburians and an odd one to check for sources for. If anyone wants to take a look the list is there and I'll move it across to Wikipedia talk:Lugstubs 2 list when I'm done in a few weeks. Zimbabwe is a short list...

I think a limit of 1200 was set and the query used worked by first name, so that's why it only gets part way through D. I imagine the plan was to polish those off quickly and then do a lot more in the second tranche. This followed on from WP:LUGSTUBS which considered nearly 1000 Olympians. I've no idea how many of those were brought back into mainspace Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:03, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Not sure about redirecting ones that have potential, like the colonel above. Then they become invisible and never get expanded :( AA (talk) 12:17, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

If we just started by redirecting the ones that BST has identified as being (apparently) hopeless, that would help a lot. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:22, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

If you can throw a couple of references on to his article it'll help remove the tag rather than redirect. He's one I might get to once the majority of the redirection is done. The list, of course, will be there so can be revisited at any point Blue Square Thing (talk) 13:42, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

As a heads up, we've now got a date of 23 June 2025 for draftification to begin - assuming anyone can figure out an automatic way of doing so. There's a set of instructions at Wikipedia talk:Lugstubs 2 list#2025 procedure for how manage any redirects and ones where the template needs to be removed. There are lists by country with generally my recommendation at the same place. I should think I'll get to everything other than the Indians and Sri Lankans by that deadline (here are just too many from India and Sri Lanka for me to deal with easily). Blue Square Thing (talk) 13:42, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

I see that Blue Square Thing has started redirecting the Australian players to the state by state lists. Can I ask, to avoid them "becoming invisible", can the state category (ie Category:Victoria cricketers be left on the redirect page? I know it works, and I think it's allowed by the WP:LISTRCAT guideline. The-Pope (talk) 11:53, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

Yes, I'd like to add them back in, but I'm really concerned that I'm not going to have enough time to get to all of the articles that need to be redirected. My priority at this stage is to do the redirect quickly and then to try to find the opportunity to come back to them once I get the chance. I really appreciate that this is leaving work for other people to clean up, but the alternative is that we lose all these articles to a draft space limbo. I've probably got one or two days before the deadline that I can give even part of to this Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:30, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

A status report. NZ, Australian, South Africans (with cats - sorry, it was just as easy), Zimbabweans, and the odds and sods all done. British ones that need to be kept have had tags removed, but I'm leaving the others until last. I imagine that it'd be possible for two or three of those to be worked up to DYK level if someone could send a couple of hours on them. I might try and do that for one, but it would be an interesting experiment.

I've PRODed seven I think – ones that I don't think we'd be looking to keep these days and can't easily find suitable sources for. Keep an eye on the PROD list and feel free to remove if you think they're worthwhile, but I'm not sure it's worth sending these to draft really

This leaves: Pakistan, Bangladesh, Barbados, Guyana, Jamaica, Trinidad. I have redirect targets set up where needed – all the West Indians and a few of the others. Then it's India, which someone has done a few of, and Sri Lanka. I really don't think I'll get to those lists in any sensible way. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:45, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

I think it's good to leave cats on the redirects. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:51, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Update: All but the British, Indians, and Sri Lankans are done. I know what's probably happening to the British articles, so my calculation is that of the 805 articles that have been dealt with (excluding Indians and Sri Lankans), 695 have been redirected to a list of some kind or improved and removed from the list to draft, I've PRODed 7, which leaves 104 to send to draft. It's about 13.8% being drafted or PRODed. I've not calculated how many have been removed from the list. Sri Lankan lists are scarce, so that will probably increase the percentage. I'm not sure about the Indian lists Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

• Update: just the British to do now – got through all the Indians and Sri Lankans pretty much. 65% of Indians redirected; 22% of Sri Lankans Blue Square Thing (talk) 07:52, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

• Update: I'm now done working through these lists and I assume the others will be sent to draft at some point in the near future. There are 287 articles still tagged with template:special draft pending. Checking which articles link to that template is the easiest way by far of identifying them. The majority are south Asian and South African Blue Square Thing (talk) 11:13, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

Mercy Rule / Declaration

I stumbled on a reference to declaration in the article Mercy rule. I have left a proposal for removal on the talk page but I reckon the experts here would have a greater insight if anyone wishes to contribute. Thanks. Leaky caldron (talk) 17:29, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Requested move discussion at Talk:Virat #Requested move 6 June 2025

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Virat #Requested move 6 June 2025 that might be to the interest of members of this WikiProject. Servite et contribuere (talk) 10:07, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Jimmy Wootton

Just expanded Wootton. He was one of the leading slow left-arm bowlers in England during the 1880s for Kent. I wonder, given his importance for Kent, if anyone has any further written sources on him. There has to be more! Cheers in advance!

I doubt there will be much more that is easy to find. An obituary no doubt, but that would require a visit to Canterbury or the MCC library for (which is apparently possible). If I find anything I'll try and remember to add it Blue Square Thing (talk) 11:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Cheers :) I often find that professionals of the era have less on them than their amateur compatriots. The Times didn't even do an obituary for him! AA (talk) 14:44, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Nickname in infoboxes

Why are there so many media-related nicknames in cricketers' infoboxes, and why is King Prince Boom Boom Afridi included? Famous footballers do not have nicknames in their page infoboxes. I am not against the stokesy things in Ben Stokes' article, but it should not have been either. (IMO) ইমরান ভূইয়া (talk) 08:03, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Old style Test Championship / Test Rankings

@OCDD has overhauled the ICC Test Championship related pages, and has added Test Championship appearances and Mace wins to international team infoboxes. Is this valid? There were never any separate Test Championships, it was a continuous ratings system and the team at the top happened to be given the mace to wave around. I would drop any mention of it in the infoboxes, so anyone have any other views? Spike 'em (talk) 10:23, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Source

From 2003 to 2019 the Test cycle was called the Test Championship which was rebranded into World Test Championship in 2019. The format existed and so did the teams and the Test tours. Not having any mentions of that is a disservice to the functioning of the format. As if no championship existed before 2019. The trophy also remains the same: the test mace. OCDD (talk) 10:35, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

But there were no winners, nor any appearances. It was a continuous system, and the top ranked team got presented the mace and given a some cash if they remained there long enough. England (nor any other team) did not appear in it 17 times, and no team "won" the championship. These parameters are completely meaningless, and there are already parameters that give a team's top ranking. They should be removed. Spike 'em (talk) 10:40, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

They did however award the ICC Test Championship Mace every year, which is the thing that OCDD has been adding to infoboxes. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:45, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Yes, that has always been the ICC trophy for Test formats and it was missing from the infoboxes. Teams have won the Mace prior to the WTC as well. The title has been changed and rebranded into a 2 year cycle championship but the test tours and the trophy remains the same. Even WTC has a points table. The only difference is the number one team plays against the number two in the final to determine the winner. OCDD (talk) 10:50, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

No it wasn't, you are utterly misrepresenting what the mace was. Teams were not "World Test Champions" they were the top ranked team in Tests. Spike 'em (talk) 10:51, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Where have I said the teams were "World Test Champions"??? They were the winners of the Test Championship and won the mace in their respective years because that was the system and the championship ICC used to follow then. OCDD (talk) 10:54, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

They did not win the mace for a year, it changed hands whenver a team took over at the top of the ratings. If a team happened to be top in MayApril they also got goven some cash. They did not entere each year and decide on a winner. The ratings covered between 2 and 3 years worth of matches, so it was not an annual competition by any means. Spike 'em (talk) 10:58, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

They gave the mace to the team that was leading the ratings whenever the lead changed. The team at the top each MayApril also got given some cash. It was never a separate competion, teams did not appear in it 17 times, nor did teams ever win it. Spike 'em (talk) 10:50, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

The team at the top was at the top because they won most the their matches through the time period. 17 years is the number of years the Test Championship happened before WTC was created. OCDD (talk) 10:56, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

It did not happen 17 times. The ratings ran for 17 years (and are still running) before the ICC introduced an actual competition. Spike 'em (talk) 11:02, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Did England not have Test tours from 2003 to 2019? Did they not play matches and did they not get points in the ranking table for that? They even won the Mace in 2012. It is their rightful ICC Test trophy. Just because it happened in Test Championship and not the newly rebranded WTC does not mean it did not happen. OCDD (talk) 10:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Yes, they had plenty of tours, they were top ranked in Tests for a while and held the mace, but they certainly did not enter 17 separate Test Championships, let alone win any. Spike 'em (talk) 10:55, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

If you don't want to understand the point, that's on you. You were even denying that Test Championship existed. And yet the sources say otherwise. Keep at it. I've made my point. OCDD (talk) 10:57, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

I agree that the ICC called their Test ratings the Test Championship. It was never an annual competition, it was an ongoing rating system. Teams never "won" it, they were the top ranked team. The ratings cover between 2 and 3 years of Tests, disproving your contention that it was an annual competition.

I wrote huge amounts of the Test Championship page, so don't give me any shit for not understanding it when you are the one unable to comprehend what it means. Spike 'em (talk) 11:01, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Mind your language and stay in your lane. This is not your backyard where you can curse. And yes it was annual because it was given on an annual basis based on the performances of the teams on their Test tours on a yearly basis. OCDD (talk) 11:05, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

I can use whatever language I like, so don't insult me with nonsense like this If you don't want to understand the point, that's on you and then lecture me about behaviour. Could you please provide a source that says England entered 17 Test Chamionships? Spike 'em (talk) 11:08, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Why have you listed Pakistan with no Test Mace wins when they held it for 2 months in 2016? This is more proof that the mace was not the prize for an annual competition. Spike 'em (talk) 11:18, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

They held it from August - October 2016, not over the April-May prize period, so your edit to the mace page is wrong. The table on there is nonsense, as the mace changed hands when the lead changed, not at the time of the ratings rebase in April / May April prize point. Spike 'em (talk) 11:28, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

And some info about the mace from an ICC Press release in 2017

About the ICC Test championship mace:

The ICC Test Championship mace is awarded to teams that reach the number-one spot in the MRF Tyres ICC Test Team Rankings.

The team that is number-one ranked at the 1 April cut-off date gets a cash award of $1 million. The team placed second gets $500,000, the third $200,000 and the fourth $100,000.

India’s longest tenure at the top was from November 2009-August 2011 under Mahendra Singh Dhoni.

Current Test rankings system was introduced in 2003

No where does it say it is an annual competition, it makes it clear that the mace gets passed between teams whenever they reach the top. They happen to get a prize if they are top in April. Spike 'em (talk) 11:36, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Looks like this is dubious enough to warrant removal. I happened to notice first thing when a bunch of invalid parameters appeared, so initially reverted some. Whilst we're at it, we could use removing the cup icons from infoboxes under accessibility grounds Blue Square Thing (talk) 11:50, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Yep, cup icons have no place in an infobox either. Spike 'em (talk) 11:55, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

As per the above, the mace was not an annual award (my mistake in thinking it was), so all of this mace "information" is made up and incorrect. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:28, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

(-: The ICC would always do a annual press release at the prize point (which I think usually coincided with the annual rebasing of the ratings), so it does lead to a bit of confusion, but it wasn't an April-only award. I can find lots of UGC-type sites that list the April prize winners, but can't see any RS that call them Champions or Winners. Spike 'em (talk) 14:16, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Mohammad Rizwan (cricketer) #Requested move 12 June 2025

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Mohammad Rizwan (cricketer) #Requested move 12 June 2025 that might be to the interest of members of this WikiProject. Servite et contribuere (talk) 01:07, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

Medal templates, hosts, and the WTC in the infobox

There have been discussions in the past about medal templates in the cricketer infobox ([here] or [here] for example). Those I file under "whatever" now, because we're not going to be removing them. There have also been a number of conflicts over the hosts for competitions – the Pakistan/UAE "host" for the recent Champions Trophy, for example caused a range of issues in a number of places, including in infobox medal templates.

Now the WTC and its host status seems to have raised its head, with medal templates suggesting that the "host" is England – on the grounds that the final has been played at Lord's. I'm less convinced of the rationale for this, but it would be useful to try to get some form of consensus I imagine. Does anyone who is not involved in the editing of these have any view that might help resolve this? Thanks Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:00, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

Then remove from infobox of every women's cricket team and indian national cricket team, selective removal causes these issues I saw indian national cricket team with trophies in infobox so I added to others@Blue Square Thing ‍—⚰️NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 14:25, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

I don't think this is a response to the point I made above, but about the use of icons in infoboxes – which is discussed a little above. Feel free to move this discussion to a more appropriate spot if you wish to.

I've just pointed out on your talk page that I think they absolutely fall foul of WP:ICON in a number of ways – from an accessibility point of view at least. Given that you did the first revert on my edits I think two minutes or so after I made it, perhaps you might give me a chance to work through all the other teams? That would probably have helped to be honest. I note that you've now reverted your reverts, but I'm not sure whether that's because you agree with my interpretation of ICON or not? Whatever, I'm not doing anything else until we discuss this properly somewhere or other! Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:33, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

The reverts are after agreeing with your opinion. ‍—⚰️NΛSΛ B1058 (TALK) 15:05, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

I removed from all the men's teams during the week, but can't monitor them 24 hours per day. Spike 'em (talk) 17:09, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

What is the consensus?

In order to stop this edit warring and settle a disputed consensus. I am really concerned about edit summaries like this: There’s a reason ICC was removed from the tournament names. That was where consensus was achieved. Stop making up imaginary consensus to suit your edits. in an edit to Kane Williamson and this: Medal tables have position medals. Start a discussion if you’re have a problem. Your mass changes are disruptive. in an edit to Ravi Bishnoi. Both were by User:OCDD. Clearly there is a dispute of consensus and we need an Independent Neutral expert to sort both of these disputes. I will abide by the Independent Neutral ruler regardless of whether they rule in Favour of me or OCDD and I ultimately only care about this consensus being upheld regardless of who is correct or incorrect. Only thing I have to argue is that on medal record in favour of words is that these world cups are Independently run by the Cricket without being part of a broader games, Olympic Games, Commonwealth Games ETC. Medals are not handed out like One, Two and Three. Actually, I do have another argument after all and that is that the meaning of consensus can be discussed or undiscussed. Although this has not been discussed (Please correct me if I am wrong), editors have generally overwhelmingly agreed on using stuff like Winner, Runner Up over medals and User:OCDD decided to change it without discussion. If a discussion has been cited, please tell me. And most importantly, far more importantly than winning my case or whether me or OCDD are sided with: MAY THE TRUTH WIN EVEN IF IT MEANS I LOSE MY CASE!!! Servite et contribuere (talk) 06:09, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Also, I have made a decision just now to forbid myself or User:OCDD from making a final ruling. Thank you Servite et contribuere (talk) 06:13, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused. In Olympic Games and Commonwealth Games medals ARE handed out for first, second and third places. HiLo48 (talk) 07:32, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

No confusion necessary - Ravi Bishnoi is odd because he did win a medal and was also a runner-up in a competition without medals. I've edited the article to match what it should be without looking at any of the history, and this basically matches what it was before OCDD's initial edit. SportingFlyer T·C 08:06, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

HiLo48 What I meant was unlike the Olympic and Commonwealth Games just for clarification. Servite et contribuere (talk) 08:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Every ICC event has medals [have you never seen the post final ceremony?] and are given on the basis of positions not like Olympics which have gold, silver, bronze. OCDD (talk) 08:09, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Have you never seen the post final ceremony? I'm very sorry OCDD, but unless you can provide a source of evidence of post match ceremony handing out Gold, Silver and Bronze it is WP:OR. Servite et contribuere (talk) 08:27, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

I never said they hand out gold, silver and bronze. Do you lack comprehension skills? READ again. I said they hand out position medials and not gold, silver, bronze. OCDD (talk) 08:39, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

As for ICC not being in the page names, there was a move discussion and after a consensus ICC was removed from Cricket World Cup and T20 World Cup page names. Please go checkthe logs before making random accusations, Servite et contribuere. OCDD (talk) 08:11, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

OCDD I have know seen it. Another important thing to keep in mind is that the move was only for article titles. I wasn't making random accusations. I am discussing how to improve Wikipedia. We just have to ask the experts whether the article title applies in medal record. Thank you Servite et contribuere (talk) 08:25, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Why should it? OCDD (talk) 08:39, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

OCDD I think we might have a misunderstanding. What I meant was does the RM mean we have to go by the new article title after the RM or not? It's still best to ask what experts say as they are the ones who can resolve these disputes and misunderstandings. That's all Servite et contribuere (talk) 09:32, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

ICC was only removed from the titles, yes. The word "ICC" should be used in the lead and infobox still. Other places, we could just go with the article's title. Vestrian24Bio 10:26, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Cricket World Cup#Requested move 19 June 2025

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Cricket World Cup#Requested move 19 June 2025 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vestrian24Bio 10:33, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:ICC World Test Championship#Requested move 18 June 2025

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:ICC World Test Championship#Requested move 18 June 2025 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vestrian24Bio 10:38, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

Requested move discussion at Talk:Indian cricket team in Australia in 2024–25 #Requested move 21 June 2025

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Indian cricket team in Australia in 2024–25 #Requested move 21 June 2025 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Servite et contribuere (talk) 22:56, 21 June 2025 (UTC)