Talk:Lox

Lox

I don't see anything in the store labeled "lox." Our synagogue usually serves nova smoked salmon. My family always called nova smoked salmon "lox" but where do you get the brine-cured real thing? …Why should they be together with Swedish food?? No, Lox can not be merged within the same article as smoked salmon etc. Do not include religious food with Scandinavian food, because in scandinavia, we do not care.I am strictly against.==Merging Lox with Smoked Salmon== I've proposed a merger of Lox and Smoked Salmon, as I'm almost positive they are the same thing. Please leave comments for/against, and I will check back in a few weeks to see what people think about this. Nemilar 05:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Why merge it with smoked salmon rather than gravlax? I think it's ok for this to stand on its own. --D. Webb 20:06, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Stand on their own: the variations of Lox and Nova are, for my own linguistic useage and understanding, salt cured or cold smoked [with or without sugars or splices, as distinguished from "smoked salmon" which I always think of as smoked or cooked either at low temps [200-250 Farenheit] or higher temps for brief times, and where the temperature is raised to cook the flesh. But this variation [lox vs. smoked salmon] is not definitive all over. Still, given the historical distinctions [for which the Wiki encyclopedia is well situated...], arising from linguistic or cultural derivations, I would leave available multiple article titles, with liberal cross referencing. Similarly, the cooking similarities and explanations would be best replicated in a cooking wiki in a single article, with articles titles covering the various forms all pointing to that same article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JohnRuskin (talk • contribs) 01:47, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

They should both stand on their own. They are not related other than they both incorporate salmon. It's like suggesting that the Cheddar cheese and Mozzarella articles should merge because they both use cow's milk. --Walter Görlitz 06:08, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually Lox is cured and NOT smoked. Smoked salmon is just that, salmon that has been smoked - and most often cured also. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.45.200.226 (talk) 16:42, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Liquid Oxygen

Liquid Oxygen is also referred to as "lox" (as I discovered when I worked at Grumman Aerospace and I saw an accident report that there was a lox leak somewhere. 69.228.240.57 03:58, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I was just thinking about Ian Fleming and came here. One of his books mentions that lox is both salmon and liquid oxygen. So, in addition to the etymology section, I think the page author needs to be explicit about spelling too. Yiddish lax, American lox (due to pronunciation - I was thinking about Fleming because I'm reading Old English, where a and o are used equivalently in some circumstances)? Otherwise Fleming is writing nonsense. Fuficius Fango (talk) 07:14, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

The Name

I have some trouble with the phrasing "Variations on the name are lox (Yiddish), lax (Swedish), laks (Norwegian and Danish) and lachs (German)." Actually, these are the same word that has evolved differently in different Germanic Languages, i.e. true cognates. As the meaning is phrased now, it sounds like German has borrowed the word from Yiddish, when it in fact is a several thousands of years old word for salmon. By the way, Old English had "læx".

You're right, they're cognates and ultimately derived from old norse. --D. Webb 20:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

"By the way, Old English had "læx"." "Had" strictly speaking, but that word can be over-interpreted. It depended on dialect and era. Alfred's Colloquy (lW-S) has leax. Did Sweet normalise it to eW-S læx? Bosworth and Toller [[1]] imply leax is correct and and læx and lex are variants. Fuficius Fango (talk) 07:23, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Added an image

hope nobody minds--Sir.Salmon Fish^{The First} 14:28, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Is this a US-specific name?

I'm British and have never heard smoked salmon called "lox" - it's just "smoked salmon" over here. Where else is this term used? 143.252.80.110 14:53, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

As the article says, it's a yiddish word. So you're more likely to hear it in places with a large jewish community. --BluePlatypus 15:31, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Ashkenazic Jews and the Sussman family in particular. yonkeltron 11:52, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Smoked salmon is called smoked salmon in the U.S. also. Lox isn't just salmon that has been smoked though, it has been thinly filleted(cut parallel to the spine as opposed to perpendicular like with a salmon steak), and specially cured to give it a stronger flavor. It is very good on a bagel with cream cheese, a poached egg and hollandaise sauce.AerobicFox (talk) 07:35, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Slight correction, the difference between lox and smoked salmon is this: lox is brined, smoked salmon and both brined AND smoked. The confusing thing is, that in the US at least, they have become interchangeable. K-Man 02:06, 22 May 2019 (UTC)koconnorc

Merge with Smoked salmon?

Shouldn't this article be merged with "smoked salmon"? They seem to be talking about essentially the same thing. SigPig 23:48, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Is lox different from smoked salmon? I was confused about this, and came to wikipedia for some answers, but the difference between lox and smoked salmon is not specifically explained. It seems to have something to do with the brining process, perhaps. Someone please clarify. 209.217.66.110 02:38, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I think lox is either smoked salmon or gravlax. In the scandinavian languages, however, (Norwegian, Swedish, Danish and Icelandic), lax (from where the word lox is derived) simply means salmon, no matter whether it is smoked or grilled or still alive. --D. Webb 03:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Lox and smoked salmon are separate things. True Lox is salt cured and not smoked.

You mean gravlax. --D. Webb 20:02, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

If there is to be a merger it should be under the title of "Smoked Salmon". Living in Scotland, and having worked for a time in the production of this foodstuff, I have never heard of the term "Lox" used for the smoked product. I have however, heard (and made) Gravadlax. I think also that the suggestion that this word came into English from the Yiddish is misleading, considering that the Middle English had the term "leax, læx &c." for salmon which was found latterly as "lax" chiefly in North-east Doric of Scotland from the 14c. to the 19c. (taken from Chambers Concise Scots Dictionary). I would conversely suggest that the word came from the cognate germanic languages into yiddish as a loan word. This is also English wikipedia and I would further suggest that this article should have the correct and most common English name for the product. Brendandh 22:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Yiddish is a Germanic language, so Yiddish did not take on most of its Germanic lexical elements as "loan words," but developed them from its very origins.

While this is not Yiddish Wikipedia, lox is an English word (note its characteristically English spelling) although it was borrowed from Yiddish. —Hanina

The word "lox" is Yiddish in origin, and connotes not specifically a smoked salmon product, but rather specifically a brined product, smoked or unsmoked, that is prepared according to traditional Jewish specifications (i.e. no bones, etc.) According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the word's etymology can be traced thusly: Yiddish laks, from Middle High German lahs, salmon, from Old High German. That the word was and is extant in modern English language can be seen in one of Beverly Cleary's "Ramona books" (I don't recall which specific one). In this instance, the author very specifically refers to her father being given "lox" as a gift from his parents. I advocate keeping them separate, with due references to each article in the "See Also" section. Though very similar, they are NOT synonymous.

-MojoXN@gmail.com

Traditional lox is not smoked, so a merger would be incorrect unless the resulting article is retitled "Cured salmon." It seems doubtful anyone would search for that.

It's also worth noting that lox -- called lox -- is really an American-Jewish food, so English speakers outside the U.S. are unlikely to know about it. And, therefore, the Yiddish etymology is the correct one, no matter how many cognates there are. I cited a reference in the article.

You can also find another discussion of how the term is often misused here: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9505EEDD1738F93AA1575AC0A9649C8B63 Fijagdh 11:10, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Lox is not specifically Jewish, nor is it particularly American. It is the name for any salmon or salmonid fish species. In its English usage it is usually in its prepared form, either smoked or gravlax. I find it comical that it has a separate article here. It should be linked to both gravlax and smoked salmon in a disambiguation page.Fraxbo 17:44, 23 September 2007 (UTC)fraxbo

Perhaps people here have not eaten lox, but it really is not the same thing as smoked salmon. Different treatments and different cuts, you would not want to merge fillet with steak since they both come from a cow.AerobicFox (talk) 07:38, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Lox is belly lox, and salt cured. It is OUTRAGEOUSLY salty, much cheaper and considered the poor man's smoked salmon. BUT ... you CANNOT include Nova Scotia salmon in this heading under "Lox." Nova Scotia salmon or "Nova" to we, New Yorkers, IS smoked. Nova IS NOT lox, although, it's frequently referred to as Nova lox. You can get Lox (belly lox) in any REAL JEWISH Bagel store Pookerella (talk) 15:39, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you all for the extremely informative posts! I wonder whether there is a way to put all this great info into one article, but display all the distinctions with a Venn Diagram? Tina Kimmel (talk) 05:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Film Reference

Although Lox is not a word common in the UK, James Bond mentions it in You Only Live Twice when he briefly confuses it with Liquid Oxygen (used by Blofeld's engineers for rocket propulsion). 212.137.45.109 (talk) 12:18, 29 May 2008 (UTC) John N.

Photo

This photo seems more photogenic. Badagnani (talk) 07:37, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Lox - Gravlax

Perhaps people here haven´t eaten lox and perhaps they haven´t eaten gravad laks and perhaps the haven´t eaten smoked salmon and perhaps they haven´t heard of neither of it and perhaps they cut it and cure it slightly different in scotland than in nova scottia but nevertheless it´s highly hilarious to keep up several articles on the same matter all because some find it fancy in a hoitytoity style to promote the word " lox " which might when it comes down to all, very well be an all commercial invention and not even a yiddish word at all.I for my part have been consuming tons of gravad laks served with sweet dill/ mustard sauce, smoked salmon ( made from the exact same sort of slicings )and gravad laks that was aswell smoked as not smoked,cured in brine or just with the dry ingredients added, and they were all Laks ! and they were all basically flavoured thin slices of Laks, which is my native tongue for Salmon,and I have eaten tons of Laks , which still means Salmon - steaks aswell as smoked salmon in the same shape as steaks - and they represent ofcourse a whole other phenomenon from a gastronomical point of view although they were still laks !, But !! - the main point and argument here remains that all thin sliced, cured , brined or not,smoked ( that is" cold smoked" since " warm smoking" would cook the meat and make it too crumbly for slicing)or not smoked, pieces of Laks / Lax / Lox (hahaha,lox!) are all the same ! and should not be handled as different matters in several different articles, and should therefor be merged to one and the same.I say that if someone know about Laks it´s us scandinavians and I do infact believe that the word in it´s origin is old norse and that all variations derived from that,and that including german and yiddish.As things stand now, the solely reason for supporting the existence of an article on " Lox " seems to be an intention from either commercial based interrests in airing a particular word as a trademark, or a somehow weird intention of promoting a product manufactured to reach a special segment of consumers whom find it important to distinguish between what is labeled with an allegedly yiddish word of origin in favour of english or scandinavian, for believe me; the difference is the same! There´s a quite well elaborated,informative and clarifying article on the issue " gravlax " already - I strongly suggest that this be merged with and subordinate to that.Flight714 (talk) 10:06, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry you think it is hilarious to believe that Lox is just a commercial invention. It is most definitely a Yiddish word, and lox specifically different than gravlax. It has a deep history within Jewish and Yiddish culture, whether you want to believe that or not. See this link. Difference between lox and gravlax--Daveblack (talk) 11:46, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

You say "...several articles..."? What several? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:03, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Kosher?

If it has both fish and cream cheese, is that considered Kosher? Or is fish not considered meat? John Alan Elson★ WF6I A.P.O.I. 01:02, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

• In the kosher laws, fish are not considered meat, but rather pareve (neutral). See here for an article about why lox can be eaten with cream cheese even by those who follow the kosher laws strictly. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 16:29, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Not enough info?

In the "Similar Products" section, this article describes how other types of salmon are prepared, but there's no explanation of how lox is prepared - just a basic definition of the product ("Lox is a fillet of brined salmon") and then a short paragraph devoted to etymology. It seems odd to read an article about lox and come away with more information about how gravlax is made than lox. Sadiemonster (talk) 03:07, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

To add to article

Basic information to add to this article:

• Lox is particularly associated with Ashkenazi Jewish cuisine.

• Traditional lox is brined but not smoked.

173.88.246.138 (talk) 21:22, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Smoked vs not smoked

This article is confusing in that it says (correctly, I think) that (real) lox is not smoked but then discusses two varieties of “lox” commonly consumed, including Nova, which are smoked. Given that smoked “lox” is so common, the article should make it clearer that the fish a lot of people consider to be lox, such is Nova, is in fact smoked (as well as cured). Cudaniel48 (talk) 02:14, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. The article used to say that, until it was changed a few weeks ago, here. I just put it back, here. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 02:21, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

American-Jewish Cuisine?!

The categorization is hilarious. This particular dish, smoked/brined (or both) salmon had been prepared in the nordics (Scandinavia in particular) far before written history, when the most traded for currency was squirrel pelts. To even postulate that this dish wasn't made before the foundation of the US is preposterous and absurd. I know it was a buzzword used for nothing a few years ago, but this if anything is cultural appropriation. The fact that Salmon doesn't even live in mediterranian should give you a clue, and even the name is from old norse. As other people correctly point out, there is nothing fundamentally different about this compared to gravlax or smoked/brined salmon from the British isles.

Make this a footnote of those articles. 37.136.15.140 (talk) 13:11, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

There's nothing exclusive about the categorization. The idea that lox isn't American-Jewish cuisine is laughable; of course it is. That doesn't prevent all the other things from being true. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 13:19, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

If i make a pizza, it doesn't mean it is part of the cuisine of my nation, i'm just making an italian dish. The very same applies here, regardless of the amount of consumption or making of pizza will not make it cuisine of my nation or culture, the very same holds true for Lox. It is not, and will not ever be "American-Jewish Cuisine". 37.136.15.140 (talk) 17:10, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

OK. Good luck getting a WP:CONSENSUS for that; doing so would probably eliminate the entire category. American-Jewish cuisine is a distinct cuisine, mostly including things accumulated during the Diaspora. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 19:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)