Talk:Mormons

Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2023

This article has major flaws stemming from the mislabeling of members of the Church of Jesus Christ as "Mormons." We are NOT nor have we ever been Mormons. We are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints. Period. Larsonscottr (talk) 05:03, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: see WP:COMMONNAME Cannolis (talk) 05:06, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Larsonscottr: While CJC may not like the use of the term, "Mormons" has long been a common term for members of Mormonism, or the LDS Movement, including but not exclusively referring to CJC. —C.Fred (talk) 05:08, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately, edits need to be factually based, and your complaint is not.

Since you do not seem to be aware, "Mormons" was what was used to describe "proselytes of the Book of Mormon" starting in 1831 because, unhelpfully, the church just wanted to be called "the Church of Jesus Christ", a term also claimed by Sidney Rigdon's former church literally a few miles down the road, and a term claimed by literally every Christian sect in history. Despite Rigdon later deciding in 1834 that he didn't like the term "Mormon" because the public was starting to associate the term with the bad behavior of the members and missionaries, Joseph later adopted the term as central to the identity of the faith. Joseph Smith himself frequently referred to the members of the church as "Mormons", especially during the period between 1838 and 1842.

The current revisionist history you are pushing is a recent phenomenon promoted by Russel Nelson who appears to have a beef with Gordon Hinckley who publicly reprimanded Nelson in 1990 for being too extreme and pedantic about his doctrine around the importance of the name. See here for more: https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/nbh7f6/russell_m_nelson_apostate/

The fact is that the LDS sect has shifted its position on what it prefers to be called about every 30 years or so since 1834.

Besides, the LDS church is simply not the only Mormon church out there. There are nearly 100 distinct Mormon sects, most of which are quite small, but all of which believe themselves to be the one true Mormon church, whether they prefer that name or not. The academic umbrella term for describing any adherent to the restoration movement started by Smith is "Mormon", whether any particular sect likes it or not, because it is a descriptive label with significant utility. Frogontrombone (talk) 05:09, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

"We are NOT nor have we ever been Mormons." Then who were those people in the 2010-2018 I'm a Mormon campaign? ~Awilley (talk) 05:02, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

We are members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and our prophet has said that any other name is deemed offensive to Jesus Christ, whose church should be called a name that includes HIS FULL NAME. Laissez faire fan (talk) 14:55, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Tithing interviews?

In this[1] edit, ChristensenMJ changed the text to say members are "encouraged" to meet to discuss tithes. This is not what the source says, so the text fails WP:V. ChristensenMJ: have you an explanation? Bon courage (talk) 16:46, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the question, Bon courage. I just believe it sounded far too mandatory or required as it was worded. Members are certainly invited to attend, but it's not compulsory....there are certainly plenty who even pay a full tithe, but don't take the opportunity to visit with their bishop. Now, admittedly, I don't know the specific wording Bushman includes in his brief introduction to Mormonism. However, even when the LDS Church made some adjustments to the name and its focus in August 2022, as shown [2] here, it's identified for as a time for individuals and families to enhance and teach the blessings of the voluntary contributions that comprise payment of tithes. ChristensenMJ (talk) 17:09, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

It would be better to abide by WP:V, surely. Isn't editing text without have the source to hand really problematic? Bon courage (talk) 17:14, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

That is self-evident for all who engage in good faith WP editing, as you have done, and as I have done. The question you pose also implies that these good faith editing efforts are black and white and can only be conveyed in the way an individual editor feels something should read. ChristensenMJ (talk) 17:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I think for something to be "read" in a different way, first it must be actually read. I don't the the issue is anything to do with good/bad faith but we have a duty to make sure content is WP:Verified, in accord with core policy, no? Bon courage (talk) 17:40, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

@Bon courage: For my part, the reason I removed the discussion of the interview in my edit was because it is misleading to say or imply that the bishop is the one determining if the member has paid a full tithe. The bishop does not make any inquires into the method used to calculate the tithe (is it on gross, net, pre-tax, etc). It is the church member themself who determines if the tithe is full or not. Therefore I don't think the "interview" is that significant or necessary to mention. --FyzixFighter (talk) 23:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

The Church Handbook states that "All members are invited to meet with the bishop to: *Declare to the bishop their status as tithe payers *Ensure their contribution records are accurate." They are invited, not required. I think the new wording is an improvement and more accurate. Bahooka (talk) 04:27, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

I think describing tithing interviews is getting a little too far into the weeds for this top-level article. ~Awilley (talk) 04:58, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Awilley. I think that details of tithing interviews would be better placed in Tithing in Mormonism article. Epachamo (talk) 05:19, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2024

Please change:

[Since 2018, the LDS Church has emphasized a desire for its members be referred to as "members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", or more simply as "Latter-day Saints".]

To:

[Since 2018, the Church has emphasized its desire to keep the name of Jesus Christ within its name even when speaking casually. This went so far as to even say "To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan."]

Here is the source for this: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2018/10/the-correct-name-of-the-church?lang=eng&id=p15#p15 2601:681:602:2B40:4007:E589:9DB6:6908 (talk) 05:04, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

It may be useful to modify "Since 2018, the Church..." to "Since 2018, the most popular sect..." or something similar. 2601:681:602:2B40:4007:E589:9DB6:6908 (talk) 05:15, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done Your changed text removes the mention of the exact name they want (i.e. Latter-day Saints), meaning users unfamiliar with the topic won't be aware of it. Also, the lead of the article is supposed to be a quick summary of the topic. The exact motivations behind them preferring certain nomenclature is already included in detail in the Terminology section below. ― novov (t c) 02:24, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

That's a load of bullcrap. The exact name we want is "Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints." or "Disciples of Jesus Christ". We won't settle for any less Laissez faire fan (talk) 14:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 July 2024

This page repeatedly refers to members of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints as "Mormons" however, it is widely known that they much prefer to be referred to by their actual name, so you might consider changing that to reflect the accurate name of the church. 72.24.120.144 (talk) 05:10, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

See MOS:LDS.There is more than one LDS denomination. Acroterion (talk) 06:02, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Hear hear Laissez faire fan (talk) 14:58, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

References

We are not mormons. we are members of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints

A bit of a rant here, TL; DR PLEASE change it to Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints, it's not okay to call us Mormons.

Someone please edit this page from 'Mormons' to what we actually are. we seriously cannot keep the name as 'Mormons'. It doesn't matter if you're catholic, atheist, or whatever - it's seriously disrespectful to remove our name and give us a new one. we do not worship Mormon; we worship Jesus Christ. We do not go by Mormon. we are not Mormons. do not call us Mormons. YES! there are people who've gone by Mormons for their whole lives. their opinions do matter, but our prophet reaffirmed the words of Jesus Christ and told us that we MUST keep Jesus's name in Jesus's church. We are not Mormons because Mormon was a man.

I'm sorry I'm ranting about it but it's not okay to call us what we aren't - it's not okay to refer to us by a name that the public has adopted as a synonym for 'idiot' or 'blasphemous' 73.240.39.222 (talk) 18:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

See the responses on this talkpage to previous threads, and please read WP:LDS for a discussion of the specific ways consensus has developed to distinguish between LDS and Mormon appellations, and where to use the specific terms, which vary considerably between individual doctrines. Please remember that this article describes more than the largest congregations. You are correct that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Community of Christ prefer the LDS appellation, but that is not universal among all followings, or even consistent within those groups. Acroterion (talk) 18:28, 22 October 2024 (UTC)