User talk:Jonesey95

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Template question

Since you deal with templates on a semi-regular basis, I'd like to run this question by you and see if you have a simple and clean solution. WOSlinker and I were discussing last month two templates on Wikivoyage that were causing lint. We fixed the infobox one, but the other (now ~50 pages with missing/stripped issues) we haven't determined a preventative solution for, and I wondered if you had any ideas.

The quick summary of the issue is the See/Do/Buy/Drink/Sleep/etc templates (that are all written similarly) all report a missing and stripped bdi error when the content field contains manual line breaks. While these affected pages could be fixed by replacing the manual line breaks with break tags for the multiline text on each page, I feel that's the quick and dirty fix for the current pages rather than a preventative solution for a field that is ripe for a couple of lines of text with with a line break. Is that your read on the templates' Content parameter usage too, and is this something that changing the Content parameter's data type would solve, or is there some other simple and clean solution that we haven't thought of yet? Open to suggestions.

Thanks, Zinnober9 (talk) 18:43, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

voy:Template:Listing encloses everything in a <bdi class="vcard">...</bdi> but the content model for the bdi element is phrasing content - it cannot enclose block elements. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Sometimes there are ways around this limitation, for example using style="display:block;", but any sort of fiddling like that breaks the display of the template. It looks like the <bdi>...</bdi> tags are useful, so the only thing I can think to do is to work around the limitation in the individual pages where this inline tag is used to surround block content. In template transclusions here on en.WP, I typically use <br> tags to put all of the content on a single line. There are probably other ways to in-line block content.

If this is happening only in the |content= parameter, you could introduce a |content-block=yes option into the template and then replace the bdi tags with div tags or just omit them. I experimented with that a bit but did not come up with anything brilliant that fixes everything. One big problem is when the content starts on a regular line (no indents) and then ends on a * or ** line, or vice versa; that can cause misnested tag errors, as I'm sure you have seen. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:17, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

"Content" has been the only parameter I've seen regularly with the issue. Other than a one-off here or there that was cleared with break tags, all other parameters have been real short, single line entries. |content-block=yes sounds interesting. I take it that is incompatible with bdi, but works with div? The majority of the remaining current cases are mainly ones with * or : so that might be an issue.

The other two issues I haven't figured out are the stripped span issue on voy:Template talk:Divesitelisting (the bulletting with span vcard is the culprit. Swapping it to div doesn't fix, so not sure how to keep the intended look and clear error), and the wikilink error on voy:User:Alachuckthebuck/usercontrib. He's trying to substitute in userboxes from here that don't all exist equally there, and using templates that also don't exist there. Is that link error fixable without completely rehauling/fixing the red templates?

Otherwise, Voyage has been rather simple to delint. I wandered over there for a little bit after you and I finished off the Bogus Image parameters since they had some sections that were small and clearable, and have ended up taking them from ~30k errors down to the current 2090. Hoping for zero, but I'm not going to be disappointed if it ends at under 100 with only the bdi issue. Zinnober9 (talk) 16:45, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Small tags in infoboxes & templates redux

Following on from this conversation I had with you at the beginning of the year, is MOS:SMALLFONT's font size restriction mandatory, or are there times when it can be ignored? Several of my edits removing small tags from infoboxes where the font size is less than 85% of the page default have been reverted, like this one and this one. I can see restoring my edits could start an edit war. —Bruce1ee^talk 07:44, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Accessibility is a core policy of Wikipedia. If you get reverted and think the revert was wrong, as SapCal9719 was in that first edit (made without an edit summary, I note), you're supposed to discuss the revert with the reverting editor. I have found that once I explain this admittedly technical and difficult-to-perceive problem, most editors understand. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:52, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Coincidentally, I just got a "Thanks" notification for this four-year-old edit. I remove inappropriate small tags quite frequently (but not always, since I am usually editing for some other purpose), and I almost never get reverted. Most people get it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:10, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll discuss this with the reverting editor before reinstating my original edit. —Bruce1ee^talk 15:41, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Linter errors in succession boxes

Hi, I see that you have made several edits like this. In such cases, it's not the closing ''' markup that was missing, but the opening markup: it was broken way back in 2006 with this edit. The cell data (after the "Succeeded by") is already bolded, so the year range ends up being double-bolded, which looks bad. Some browsers will silently alter double-bold to normal bold, but Firefox doesn't. Also, applying bold to the year range and not the peerson's name is undesirable, so the correct fix was to remove the unbalanced bold markup. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:52, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

After my edit, the code looked like this:

{| class="wikitable succession-box noprint" style="margin:0.5em auto; font-size:small;clear:both;"

|- style="text-align: center;"
|- style="text-align:center;"
|style="width:30%;" rowspan="1"|Preceded&nbsp;by<div style="font-weight: bold">[[John Aspinall (engineer)|John Aspinall]]</div>
| style="width: 40%; text-align: center;" rowspan="1"|''' [[Chief Mechanical Engineer]] of the [[Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway]] '''<br />1899–1904        
| style="width: 30%; text-align: center;" rowspan="1"|  Succeeded&nbsp;by<div style="font-weight: bold">[[George Hughes (engineer)|George Hughes]]'''<br>1904–1922'''</div>
|-
|}

I see that there is bold markup inside a "div bold" tag. The rendered text manages to look fine in my browser, but I see what you're getting at. Different parameters exhibit different behavior in these succession box templates, and I do not see any documentation explaining which parameters accept and do not accept bold markup and line breaks. Bold markup is applied to |title= using ' characters and to |after= using div tags. Even within {{s-aft}}, div tags are used for |after=, but ' characters are used for |as=. It is a maddening, nonsensical mess, AFAICT.

I have ended up fiddling with the markup until the display looks right (in my browser) and there are no more Linter errors. Anything further from me would require making the templates behave in a sane way, or at least be documented reasonably. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:53, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Another reason why succession box style of templates is horrible and should have been converted long ago to one of the more modern systems we have. Gonnym (talk) 16:39, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Leaving my thanks!

You fixed up some of the formatting on my user page and I would like to let you know I appreciate it a lot, thank you very much for the cleanup! MonotoneSandwich (talk) 11:12, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

MonotoneSandwich, you're welcome. I love the sandwich photo. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I took it myself and accidentally ran it through a greyscale filter, and well, here I am. MonotoneSandwich (talk) 14:47, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Waypoint Entertainment

Hi Jonesey95, I see that you added a tag to Draft:Waypoint_Entertainment. I've disclosed my COI on my userpage and I'm happy to hear feedback if you see anything in the draft that isn't neutral. I'd appreciate the discussion and having the tag removed.

Thank you, Fluffybunny789 (talk) 16:17, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

The required disclosure had not been posted at Draft talk:Waypoint Entertainment. I have done so for you. Please review Wikipedia:Conflict of interest for other instructions, some of which you have followed. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I will be sure to learn more about the COI process. Now that you've added the proper disclosure, will you please remove the tag? I appreciate your help.

Thank you, Fluffybunny789 (talk) 15:55, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I will let the AFC reviewer do that as part of getting the page ready for moving to article space. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:13, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

null edits

Do you happen to remember which editor was able to null edit pages with their bot a while back? Gonnym (talk) 23:34, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

I can do that.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:07, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

User:Joe's Null Bot used to be active a long time ago. I don't know if it's still active, and I don't know how you would tell. I love that the bot has zero Contributions. I can null-edit up to 1000 pages or so on request without any trouble. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:48, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Don't think it was Joe's bot. It was someone doing a huge backlog of updating links or something of that sorts. @Trappist the monk if you can, Module:Language/data/iana languages, Module:Language/data/iana regions, Module:Language/data/iana scripts, Module:Language/data/iana suppressed scripts, and Module:Language/data/iana variants are all still showing transclusions so those articles need null edits. If it's also possible, Module:WikiProject banner transclusions also need so the tracking categories can finish populating and bot that fixes the issues can finally complete its task. Gonnym (talk) 08:33, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Joe's Null Bot has been down for years, see these edits. There are several threads on the matter in the VPT archives. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:07, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

User:Wbm1058 is also operating a bot to null-edit all stale pages in order to work around the WMF's inability to keep pages refreshed in a reasonable time frame. See the links from my Tools page. It looks like the most stale page as of a week ago was from 27 May 2024, so about four months. If you're willing to wait another four months, the bot will catch up and null-edit all of the pages you care about, most likely. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:12, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Before the recent database "normalization", my goal was to keep mainspace refreshed within about 32 days, and other namespaces within about 80 days. The Quarry database replag during that normalization process prevented my bot from refreshing links for over week, and after the replag was finally eliminated, my bots finally were refreshing links again, but their performance has been limited ever since. They are not able to refresh links at the same pace, so the length of time between refreshes is growing, and I don't know how long it will get before it stabilizes. Of course, if you have specific links you want to refresh, those can still be targeted to be done sooner. – wbm1058 (talk) 19:32, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your dedication. Until we can persuade staff to care about this problem adequately, you're the best we've got. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:39, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Gonnym, the iana module transclusions have been null edited. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Nice, thanks! Gonnym (talk) 18:58, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Linter syntax issues

To answer the question in your recent edit summary, the article Golzar Shohada of Qom was translated from Persian Wikipedia, so the error probably came from there. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 13:20, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I am seeing a few errors show up at en.WP this way. I suppose there is little to be done about it. I remain paranoid that there are helpful but obsolete examples somewhere on en.WP that people are copying, so I will probably keep using this edit summary. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:23, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

September 2024 GOCE drive award

		The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded to Jonesey95 for copy edits totaling over 8,000 words (including bonus and rollover words) during the GOCE September 2024 Backlog Elimination Drive. Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions! Dhtwiki (talk) 08:49, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Excessive pings

I've muted you. Don't bother pinging me again; I won't see it. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 19:55, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Message acknowledged. I pinged you in my edit summaries because you missed a template deletion step. I performed the removal of template transclusions for you. See also the deletion guidelines, which point to the former link. I find it helpful when people remind me of instructions that I might have missed. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:56, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Editing sandboxes

You edited User:Spideog/sandbox/stamps, as did I. The owner reverted, so I explained, and in the ensuing conversation I let the owner know that pages with lint errors attract lint fixers. Perhaps this time the owner will allow the fix to stand. —Anomalocaris (talk) 19:59, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

I recommend a more verbose, reader-friendly edit summary, using (more or less) complete sentences with good punctuation, especially in user space. I resisted changing mine for a long time, but I have found that including "I hope you don't mind this minor cleanup edit in your user space" results in a lot more thanks notifications and fewer reverts. If someone reverts, I typically leave it alone without response, knowing that another gnome will come by eventually. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:06, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Delinting

I've made a few sample delinting efforts. I'd appreciate a quick check to see if should continue. I haven't fixed everything i find, as I understand some bots are active to fix more common problems? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:46, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. I looked at all of your delinting edits since September, and I have some constructive feedback.

• All of the edits appeared to be valid, at least by my visual inspection. I did not click Edit and run LintHint to see if your edits caused new errors.
• I strongly recommend a more informative edit summary. I get much better reactions from editors when I use informative edit summaries: more thanks, fewer reverts. Specifically:

• Link to Special:LintErrors.
• When you edit in User space, write "I hope you don't mind this minor cleanup edit in your user space."
• When you leave behind some Linter errors, write "More needed". (Use LintHint to know if you are doing so.)

• Install LintHint. Let me know if you need help. Use it while editing to figure out if there are Linter errors left. It is very reliable, but not 100%. This edit, for example, left behind a very easy to replace <strike>...</strike> tag, after which the page would have been error-free. It's best to minimize the number of Lint-fixing visits to a page if possible, to avoid annoying editors who are watching those pages.
• Activate the syntax highlighter gadget. Make sure to tell it to ignore unclosed br tags.
• Try to preserve the page's appearance, unless the page is truly broken by the Linter errors (e.g. this edit, before which all text was smaller after a misnested tag).

There are a couple of bots that have fixed Linter errors, especially in user signatures, in the past. There are not any high-volume bots running right now, but one is in the approval process. I recommend focusing on errors that bots would not be able to fix, like missing end tags, especially in article space. Please let me know if you have any questions. (Sorry to Redrose and other page watchers for the messed-up numbered list syntax above; it's late at night for me and I can't be bothered to fix it right now.) – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:07, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

All common sense, With the exception of the edit summaries, I was already doing most of what you suggest, Generally when I delint, I try to make the smallest change possible that resolves the Lint-errors. Generally I try to avoid User/User talk, as other contributors were handling those namespaces. My approach to partition the task has typically been to focus on a specfic tag ( and ideally I'd like to concentrate on trying to resolve 'structural' tags if I can ( such as SPAN/DIV/TABLE over more cosmetic repairs, which some Wikipedia contributors consider a waste of time.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:47, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for The Swarm (roller coaster)

The Swarm (roller coaster) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Suntooooth, it/he (talk/contribs) 11:27, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Tech News: 2024-41

[trimmed by Jonesey95]

Updates for technical contributors

• It is now possible for <syntaxhighlight> code blocks to offer readers a "Copy" button if the copy=1 attribute is set on the tag. Thanks to SD0001 for these improvements. [1]

[trimmed by Jonesey95]

MediaWiki message delivery 23:39, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Template:Bronze W Award Nomination/doc

Not trying to edit war but you can see the instructions on WP:WAWARD/NOM. Thank you, Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 23:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for fixing the link and adding a category. The template is still very broken, or the instructions are very wrong. I tried following the instructions on the template page and got this very broken result when I tried to use the instructions for "Silver W Award". There is a template in the header, which is not permitted, per MOS:HEAD. My signature is on its own line, indented with a space, which makes it format in monospace. All unused parameters are revealed as code instead of tested for and hidden. One of the images is broken. And so on. Something in the documentation should indicate clearly that this template is in development and should definitely not be used. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:26, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Seems like you didn't {{subst:}} it, which is the reason why it shows up like that. I have put them on my award workshop, they work fine for me: Special:Diff/1250358302 Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 23:29, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

As for the MOS:HEAD reason, I use the same template code as WP:Four Award and no one has brought up an issue with MOS:HEAD there. (attribution was given to the creator as well). And each template needs its testing phase, the award was just revived so I don't expect a lot of people to be awarding so quickly so I have some period to test it. Thank you, Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 23:33, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I copied and pasted from the instructions, which included the subst: wikicode. If I hadn't substed it, you would have seen this mess. In your example, the second instance contains many of the problems that I identified. Please mark the templates as not usable, and document which parameters are required for each template. I suggest that you give actual examples instead of words that do not produce good results when copied. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:35, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I've redone it on my end and everything worked out. I don't see what is happening on your end, the template is clearly working for me and I asked another editor to try it out on their sandbox and worked for them: Special:Diff/1250359174. You are supposed to change the words that are after the parameters to match specific things like in:

{{subst:Bronze W Award Nomination
  | user     = John
  | article  = John's Featured Article
  | dyk1     = John's First DYK
  | dyknom1  = John's First DYK Nomination
  | dyk2     = John's Second DYK
  | dyknom2  = John's Second DYK Nomination
  | dyk3     = John's Third DYK
  | dyknom3  = John's Third DYK Nomination
  | dyk4     = John's Fourth DYK
  | dyknom4  = John's Fourth DYK Nomination
  | dyk5     = John's Fifth DYK
  | dyknom5  = John's Fifth DYK Nomination
}}

Which would produce:

====John( (talk · contribs)====

FA: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/John's Featured Article/archive1

DYK:

John's First DYK and nomination

John's Second DYK and nomination

John's Third DYK and nomination

John's Fourth DYK and nomination

John's Fifth DYK and nomination

Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 23:47, 9 October 2024 (UTC) Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 23:47, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Template in header, extra parenthesis coming into the header from somewhere. So that's Bronze, almost working. And it looks like you have addressed some of the bugs in {{W Award Nominations}}, per this substed diff. Keep working! Omitted or empty parameters should not expose template code; they should emit errors instead. Proper documentation will explain what parameter values are accepted and which parameters are required. Proper template code will test for all required parameters. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:01, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I've fixed the MOS:HEAD issues. As well, the problem with the omitted or empty parameters, the instruction parameters are the only parameters that you should use because if you don't than that nominee or yourself doesn't qualify for that award. So I see no reason to mess around with the wikicode for so long to figure out a fix to the error issue when I see virtually no reason to. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 00:12, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

OK, good luck. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:20, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

You too and have a good evening. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 00:26, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Flip error

Looking at User:Matrix/sandbox, it's got a div-span flip error, and I thought the solution would have been adding the |tag=div Template:If dark states for block usage, but that results in a {{{1}}} result per (my test). Am I misunderstanding the usage/placement of the tag command, or are these two templates incompatible? Not really seeing a way to rewrite them in reverse hierarchy at the moment, but also not real familiar with them either. Zinnober9 (talk) 18:24, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I fiddled with it. It looks like Matrix is (or was) working on a new template, and it doesn't work yet. I decided to leave it for a while to see if that editor fixed the problems with |tag=div. I created {{If dark/testcases}} in the hope that they would continue troubleshooting. In the meantime, there are lots of other Linter errors to fix. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:35, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for notifying me (and fixing my user page!). This template is still in beta, I need to figure out compatibility and other stuff (like dark mode gadget) out. There is supposed to be a tag=div, and I forgot to add that. You can see Template:Dark mode switch for my last attempt. —Matrix(!) _{ping one}^{when replying} {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 18:51, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I did briefly wonder if it was a testing scenario, but didn't dwell on that thought. Since it's a test, I'll leave it be and wish them luck on solving compatibility issues. Zinnober9 (talk) 19:11, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Baby

WP:BABY – S. Rich (talk) 21:08, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

That is why AGF'd and fixed the first few of your sloppy errors for you. When you insist on wandering around Wikipedia throwing trash on the ground for other editors to pick up, it becomes disruptive, as you can see if you peruse your talk page archives. Please use Preview and inspect the results of your edits. Someday, you'll poke the wrong editor with your mostly helpful but sloppy, guideline-ignoring edits, and you'll find yourself blocked. I hold myself to the same standard: if I break something on a page and don't notice my error, I am fine with being reverted and happy to return to the page to provide a non-disruptive edit. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:15, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

The present version (yours) has 18 redlinks. The one I produced had 19. Please note that many of my edits are done via the mobile app. The mobile app does not render redlinks in its preview. So the one redlink I added ({{ISBN}} instead of {{ISBN?}}) did not appear on the mobile app. So I missed it! Thanks for joining the WP:TEAMWORK to improve the project. – S. Rich (talk) 21:58, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome. Are you confused about the difference between WP:REDLINK and WP:REDNOT? Do not create red links to: ... Templates that do not exist. Templates should only be added to a page if and after they have been created. Red links to articles are fine. As for mobile, I don't use it, but if it is broken, please check your edits using the desktop view. You are responsible for your edits, as we all are. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:21, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

AFL Women's templates

I've just finished deleting the AFLW club templates that you marked as deleteable because of Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 September 14. However, I skipped Melbourne and Carlton because you didn't tag them. Should they be deleted too, or do they need to wait for a time? Nyttend (talk) 21:55, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

I missed them because they were newly in use when I tagged the others. I have tagged them now, after merging the new usages. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:02, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Possible error: four single quote marks, and self-closed nowiki tag

I was trying to improve "four single quote marks" markup with <nowiki/> on various pages, and then I decided to expand the explanation in WP:Linter#Other errors, and you improved it with {{'}}, but on further research I changed it to {{`}}, which doesn't add spacing. Then I went to Help:Nowiki and saw this: "Unless you use the two "balanced" nowiki tags, troubleshooting strip marker errors and template parameter-handling inconsistencies is a risk. Also, a rendering error may arise when two [[...]] square brackets are on the same line, or two {{...}} curly brackets are in the same section, but only when the two have the nowiki markup placed inconsistently." I realized I needed to know more, so I clicked into strip marker, and it gives vague warnings. I believe that '''<nowiki/>' isn't going to trigger strip marker exposure, but I don't actually know. I've been using <nowiki/> routinely for years, for example, when someone stubs out markup and has intended to bold a null string, I have changed '''''' to '''<nowiki/>'''. I suppose I could have used ''' ''' instead, but, I wish there were clearer instructions on when it is or isn't safe to use <nowiki/>. If you can say anything about the safety of <nowiki/>, I'd welcome it. Also, I have to say I find the "rendering error" business to be extremely confusing. I think they are trying to say, "If you insert a self-closed nowiki tag between the opening brackets of a wikilink, but not the closing brackets, or vice versa, for example [<nowiki/>[Water]], which appears to render as [[Water]], even though it seems to work, it might not always work." But maybe I've missed the point entirely. This should be clarified. —Anomalocaris (talk) 05:15, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

The issue with stripmarkers is that it depends on who is using them and for what purpose. The Mediawiki stipmarkers should show clearly, so you can know if you done something to annoy them. An example can be seen in the contents table of Neural network Gaussian process. HTH All the best: Rich Farmbrough 11:05, 14 October 2024 (UTC).

I think the "two sets of brackets" thing may be describing something like [[start]] and of [[end of link]], which renders as plain text for me, but I don't know why it does. The syntax highlighter is not happy with it, but it is different from the parser. Wikimagic, I guess. As for why I changed your nowiki to a template, I have found that culturally, putting nowiki tags into articles tends to be frowned upon, although I can't put my finger on a guideline at the moment. There is a "nowiki added" tag that is sometimes applied to diffs, so there may be some reason for that. I'll put it in the back of my head and return here if I come up with anything more useful. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:52, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

The "nowiki added" tag is often found along with the "Visual edit" tag, and in such cases is usually the result of people attempting to use VE to add Wikimarkup, as here. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:45, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, maybe that is the gut feeling I have about seeing that "nowiki added" tag along with the edit summary: many times, it indicates that a mistake has happened, often due to one of the many, many bugs in the Visual Editor. Long-unaddressed VE bugs like this one are the reason I chose to remove the list of ISBN errors from my watchlist and work list. Another editor and I had that list essentially empty a while ago, but with the rise of VE, it became futile (IMO) to try to keep the list clean. I know, I'm off on a tangent, but TL;DR: seeing nowiki tags make me think that something is wrong, so I remove and try not to use them. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:06, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

I personally use {{'}} or {{'s}} in article space and replace the nowiki tags when they are used instead. Gonnym (talk) 17:05, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Rich: I think you're saying, if you save an edit that includes nowiki tags, and there is no immediate strip marker exposure, you don't have to worry about future strip marker exposure. You didn't actually say this, but that's my takeaway. Please let me know I have the right takeaway.

Jonesey95 and others: My takeaway is that nowiki tags are fine, but unfortunately, the visual editor sometimes inserts bad nowiki markup, and because of this, edit summaries note when nowiki markup is added, and also, nowiki tags are suspect because editors know that sometimes nowiki tags are bollixed, so, even though sometimes a self-closed nowiki tag, or a pair of open and close nowiki tags, may be the most expeditious way to solve a problem, it's a good idea to do it another way if possible, so that other editors won't waste time worrying about your use. Does this seem right?

The problem is, Help:Nowiki gives examples of when to use nowiki tags. It seems that Wikipedia specifically recommends using nowiki markup, including the self-closed tag, to (a) prevent a colon, number sign, or asterisk from being in column one and emitting an <li> tag; (b) prevent two or three apostrophes from emitting italic or bold tags; (c) causing wiki markup such as a wikilink, or HTML markup such as a comment, to display as markup rather than to be processed. If we agree with these reasons, it's strange to deprecate '<nowiki/>'''single quotes around bold'''<nowiki/>', rendering as 'single quotes around bold'. I suppose the answer could be, we have an elegant workaround for separating single quotes from italic and bold markup, so you should use it, and if we come up with an elegant workaround for preventing the emission of <li> tags, you should use that too. —Anomalocaris (talk) 00:23, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that is my opinion. Of course, like all things, more knowledge might indicate cases where it's likely that something will break in the future. <nowiki/> is a hack, it might have no effect on a smart enough renderer whereas having opening and closing tags is at least clear. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 12:47, 15 October 2024 (UTC).

Empty table on Template:Science Fiction Convention List

Thanks for your recent edit to Template:Science Fiction Convention List. Do you know how to remove the empty table at the top? Gbeeker (talk) 12:35, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but it's fine to leave it there. Template pages typically show how the code renders with empty parameter values. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:02, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Re: how people keep finding obsolete tags to put in their articles

Hi! I saw in your edit summary on Los caprichos that you wondered where people keep finding that obsolete syntax. The answer is simple in this case: es:Los caprichos, the Spanish article from which this is a translation. Looking at es:Especial:Errores_de_sintaxis, they've got a long, long way to go. 6.6M obsolete tag errors, oof. I wonder if there's an opportunity for some cross-wiki initiative to handle the low-hanging fruit across all projects. --rchard2scout (talk) 10:09, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I recently became aware of these cross-wikipedia imports, and figured this might be one of them. I will continue to use this slightly obnoxious edit summary, if only to raise a bit of awareness. In this case, it's tilting at windmills, but it might help someone else. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:56, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Signature link query

Found a mismatch for the User:MisterWiki search link on Wikipedia:Linter/Signature submissions. There's no search link for MisterWiki, and the one listed for them is finding 8 results for Nixeagle and I don't see Nixeagle on the page anymore. Zinnober9 (talk) 03:41, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Hm, sloppy. I have fixed it. Thanks for finding this! – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:42, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Messed up template when subst

Hi, I tried to use the new {{AFLW}} template, and whilst I leave it as a template when in a table or infobox, I have always substituted it when in text.

However, instead of it producing the simple link that it meant to make, it made an absolute mess. Is this a no include issue? Please fix it. I was happy with the old system and you all said that this would be a straightforward change. The-Pope (talk) 15:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I've added "safesubst" to the template, so you can now use substitution. -- WOSlinker (talk) 17:58, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

October blitz bling

		The Minor Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded to Jonesey95 for copy edits totaling between 1 and 1,999 words (including rollover words) during the GOCE October 2024 Copy Editing Blitz. Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions! Miniapolis 22:31, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

working bots

Look at the recent changes from Legobot, it's now able to clear pages after Qwerfjkl (bot) fixed them. Finally some actual progress. Gonnym (talk) 11:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

We were at around 3,085,000 some errors around the time task 31 started, and we are at 3,032,000 some now, so it's been some damn good progress between the two of them. I'm curious if we'll dip below 3 million before the end of the month. Zinnober9 (talk) 16:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

I think we'll be close if I can get a list of new patterns to Qwerf for processing. As for Legobot following up, I have been hoping for that sort of partnership. I have been leaving complex font tag nesting for Legobot and noting it in my edit summaries for a couple of years now. See, for example, Talk:Friedrich Nietzsche/Archive 16. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:28, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Technical Barnstar
	Thank you very much for dealing with the Special:UnusedTemplates list that seems to be endless but will eventually reach 0 entries through your tireless work! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

It is currently literally endless, since it has a limit of 5,000 pages. My current goal is to get the total list below 5,000 by dealing with the list a bit at a time. Thanks for helping with a few of those bits! – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:51, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

"Smaller"

In font sizing, is "font-size:smaller" valid? It surprisingly works, but I'm not seeing it talked about any as a valid equivalent. Do you know? Zinnober9 (talk) 23:22, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) @Zinnober9: It's been a documented part of CSS ever since CSS level 1 way back in 1996, was carried through into CSS 2.1 (2011), is still part of the current CSS Fonts Module Level 3 (2018), and is proposed to also be in the CSS Fonts Module Level 4, which is still at the Working Draft stage. In all of those specs, smaller is one of two valid values for the relative-size keyword - the other being (naturally enough) larger. It's unlikely to be deprecated - one thing about the CSS specs is that once something is documented as valid CSS, it normally remains valid even if better methods become available. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 00:01, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, "smaller" is valid CSS, but it renders text at 83.3% of nominal, so it shouldn't be used in most places in the English Wikipedia, per MOS:SMALLFONT. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:28, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

It's 83.3% if the browser follows nothing later than CSS 2.1; most current browsers implement CSS Fonts Module Level 3 for which the smaller font scaling is 88.9%. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:12, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, I checked it in Brave Version 1.70.117 Chromium: 129.0.6668.59 (Official Build) (arm64), released October 17, 2024, and that's what was displayed for me. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:00, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you both. Good to know. Was within a user signature, so usage isn't against MOS. Zinnober9 (talk) 02:02, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

s-bef (succession box font size)

Hi Jonesey95. Thanks for your latest edit in the s-aft template, especially regarding the font size. However, I wish you could also make the font size in the s-bef template larger as well. Just like the s-aft template, the s-bef template also has small "as..." parameter that might be too small. I hope you could enlarge the font size as well to make reading easier and for consistency. RyanW1995 (talk) 14:32, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks for the tip. The small size was applied only to |as=, which is used in 5,000 of the 220,000 transclusions, so I just hadn't noticed it yet. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:53, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Captain Underpants

Captain Underpants and the Terrifying Return of Tippy Tinkletrousers and Talk:Captain Underpants and the Terrifying Return of Tippy Tinkletrousers deleted per your request. I find the situation a little confusing (e.g. why move Captain Underpants and the Terrifying Return of Tippy Tinkletrousers temp, when it has no significant history?), so I've done nothing other than the deletions; please go ahead and move the pages. Nyttend (talk) 19:41, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I honestly don't know what happened. I was trying to do a normal round-robin move, but I clearly botched it badly. I don't do many of them; I'll re-read the instructions next time. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Inline image discussion

I'm not sure how to proceed/reply to Aaron Liu in regards to Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Warn on inline image usage. I feel I've been clear on the issue as I see it (EIS does not support multiple captions at this time), and feel he thinks EIS already accounts for this case. I like the idea of a message asking users if they meant to go without frame/frameless/thumb, (but not requiring their usage) since I find giant images not infrequently with newer editors, but I'm lost with how he thinks "multiple captions" is going to allow for/solve that, and I'm lost with how it seems that he is saying EIS already handling multiple captions now. I've given it a few days to mull and make sense on a later reread, but I'm still as lost as I was when I read his first reply, and I'm not sure if Aaron and I are on opposite sides of the table, or on the same side arguing semantics of the same viewpoint with different words. Your take?

I just don't want them to create something that ends up swamping us with errors they didn't know about beforehand, and having to go around trouting those who encouraged the use of syntax usage that isn't currently supported that causes tracked errors until it's fixed. Zinnober9 (talk) 02:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

My take is that the idea is not implementable, so I'm not worried about it. I linked to a search result with over 100,000 pages where everything is working fine but the proposed criteria would cause an error message. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:44, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks

... for addressing some recent URL edits by Kanenguyen 99 hy. I noticed some of the added URLs were not even for the correct businesses. Strange. Happy editing! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:35, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I also reported them to WP:AIV. The spam sites looked like some sort of bot-created scrapes from Yelp or another review site. I assume that driving traffic to the sites will somehow result in money being redirected to the spammer? I do not understand the modern economy. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:36, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you!

Hi, Jonesey95 ! Thank you so much for correcting those Lint errors on my Userpage without disturbing the formatting I'm working on. That was thoughtful of you. ^-^~~ Saffronsilk 16:58, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome. Feel free to ask if you have any questions about how Wikipedia works. There is an endless amount to learn. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

That's kind of you. I definitely will. I was an IP editor for a few years, but recently I've started editing more prolifically and I thought it worthwhile to formalize my presence. It was hard to collaborate with other Editors as an IP, and I missed out on a lot of mentorship. Saffronsilk 17:23, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Short Description

Hi there @Jonesey95,

Just wanted to pop in here and say thanks regarding how to find articles that lack short descriptions. I've actually gotten the number down from 764 to at least 482 with more on the way. It's very helpful, so again, thank you for the recommendation :) Losipov (talk) 22:03, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Losipov, great work. You can find a lot more articles by changing the year in the search (from 1976 to 1975, for example). Just keep changing the year until you're done! I find creating short descriptions for biographical articles very easy: "Algerian gymnast", "Canadian politician", "English author", etc., with birth–death year ranges as appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:10, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Textdiff template

Do you happen to know if there is a {{textdiff}} template for paragraphs? Looking like many of the remaining ins/dels in Talk for the HTML misnests are using this template for multiple paragraphs and this template doesn't accept content with any line breaks. I'm not immediately sure what to change it to to fix those. My first thought was {{textdiff2}} akin to the {{tq}} {{tq2}} idea, but doesn't exist. Or could the template be adjusted to accept multilined content? I suspect I'm being too optimistic in that question, but worth asking. Zinnober9 (talk) 16:45, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I've been ignoring the problem of {{textdiff}} quite assiduously for a couple of years now. I'll give it some thought. We have added a |div=yes option to a few templates; I may have experimented with it with this template, but I don't remember.

For now, I'm focused on the rest of the HTML5 misnesting, and making good progress. Most of them are very easy to fix, but there are almost no "batch" fixes. They are all one-by-one, so it is slow going. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:02, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Was worth checking. There's always a template I've not run across, so thought there was a chance of one I didn't know for this situation.

Easy nonduplicates has been my findings on the HTML5 misnested set as well. Been a lot of missing span closers for span plainlinks, and some quirky IP unsigned signatures messed up by a bot that added unexpected junk or split them to three/four lines, but the contents are never the same. Zinnober9 (talk) 02:45, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Now that Talk space is clear except for diff-related errors, I have asked for help with {{Text diff}}. I posted a link to that discussion on WP:VPT. I see on the template's talk page that I tried to fix it last year. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:01, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

A fix for the text diff module is pending in a day or two. I think it will clear all of the text diff block-related errors. There should be no need to "fix" those pages. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:44, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Sweet, all cleared up. The 9 now remaining in Talk for HTML mistnests are due to Template:PIE which is up for deletion, but that'll either be noincluded, or be addressed after the tfd. Zinnober9 (talk) 15:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Database reports/Unused modules

Could you please move without a redirect the user modules to "Module:Sandbox/<user; without prefix>/..."? Gonnym (talk) 13:30, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I moved a couple of them, but then as I was checking incoming links, I found this 2018 discussion. Is there a more recent discussion? – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I had a batch a few months back. Let me see if I can find them. Gonnym (talk) 13:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 September 10 and Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 September 29, some were deleted, others moved to the Sandbox sub pages. If you aren't comfortable moving them, I'll just send them the long way via TfD. Gonnym (talk) 14:02, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I think TFD is the right way to go. I don't really see a precedent in those recent discussions. There are only seven sets of modules, if I am counting correctly, so it shouldn't be too onerous. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:35, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Index namespace

Just a passing question. Do you know how to clear lint from index pages? I've edited/verified clearance of all remaining obsolete fonts in Wikisource's Index pages, and they haven't cleared off the Special:Lint report. Linthint's clean after the edits, and I've tried purging, hard purging, and null editing, but they remain. Wondered if I was overlooking something, or if it was just a wait it out situation. Do you happen to know? Zinnober9 (talk) 15:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Nope, that's a mystery to me. You might ask on the general Linter talk page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:37, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

linter

What's the value of fixing linter errors in blocked users' talk pages? --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 15:30, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

It's the same as the value in any page. See Wikipedia:Linter for an explanation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:38, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message

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Engvar

Hi, it is regarding this change. Which template should be used in articles that concern more than one country, such as this article? EngvarB was a good option in that case. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:46, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

You may be correct. I may have skimmed that one too quickly. Bangladeshi or Indian or British English may be appropriate on that page. You are welcome to revert my edit or change the template to a more appropriate one based on the content of the prose or a discussion on the article's talk page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:49, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

(talk page jaguar) I'm partial to Oxford spelling and see it as particularly appropriate for international or historically-minded articles, but I'm happy to hear from others who would feel otherwise. Remsense ‥ 论 16:48, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

My talk page is not the right place to decide. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:49, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Apologies! Remsense ‥ 论 16:50, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm going to manually revert as of now. Engvar is certainly more useful in articles concerning these ethnic groups, especially the South Asian ones. I wasn't aware of this discussion. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

No worries. The template has been troublesome for over a decade. I have no illusions that deprecating the template will lead to 100% clarity in all situations. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:01, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Editing another user's sandbox

Re: this edit — From now on, I would prefer it if you kept your hands off my sandbox. I get around to Englishing "foreign" templates in the articles that I'm translating soon enough all by myself without anybody's help thank you. Confine your editing to the article space, please. Kelisi (talk) 17:06, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. Please read WP:REDNOT. It has been standard practice for many years to fix transclusions of non-existent templates that are listed at Wikipedia:Database reports/Transclusions of non-existent templates. User pages are no exception, and my edit was the most minimal edit I could make to fix the problem. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:59, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

There was no problem. Don't you understand? The text on that page is an article under construction. I'll get around to dealing with every problem in the imported bits (in this case, from es:WP) long before the text ever finds its way into the article space. I insist on doing this myself without having to try and figure out why other users are interfering with my work and what effect they're having. Kelisi (talk) 02:51, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your work. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:10, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Infobox edits

Thanks for your help with the Essay infobox. Is it okay if I edit the parameters now? I see there's a bit of a rager going on in the deletion discussion. I don't want to mess anything up more than I did already. Trumpetrep (talk) 21:34, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Feel free to edit the parameters for {{Infobox essay}}. Note that the template is already deployed in about 20 articles, so try not to break anything. I'm available to help if you want it; just post on the talk page.

The template needs documentation. You should be able to copy and paste most of what is at {{Infobox book/doc}}, since the parameters are largely the same. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Tech News: 2024-48

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Updates for editors

• A new version of the standard wikitext editor-mode syntax highlighter will be available as a beta feature later this week. This brings many new features and bug fixes, including right-to-left support, template folding, autocompletion, and an improved search panel. You can learn more on the help page.

[snip]

MediaWiki message delivery 22:39, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

David Gulpilil

Not my script you might say something to the scripts creator - FlightTime (open channel) 14:46, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I have. You are responsible for your edits, even if they are made with a script. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:50, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Lint errors in templates question

Yesterday I fixed a template lint error by moving the close table tag to a new line. Then I searched for the same pattern <noinclude>|} in other templates and found over 300 of them. Yet none of them are reporting lint errors. I even null-edited a few of them, but still no errors are reported. Why did {{Vb res 4}} report a lint error? —Bruce1ee^talk 07:36, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

It could have been the last gasp of T348296, which is supposedly fixed. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:42, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. If that bug has been fixed, it could take a little while to kick in. —Bruce1ee^talk 15:10, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

One thought: the Vb res template had the table end on the same line as table cell content, which should not have worked, as far as I know. It should have been causing a missing table end all along. It is possible that the fix to T348296 surfaced this as an actual Linter error when it was improperly ignored before. A table end on a line by itself with a noinclude tag, such as at {{Certification Table Top}}, should not cause an error.

Evidence for this hypothesis is that {{Extended football squad disc start}} shows a Linter error, as does {{CoachListHeader}}, even though they are not currently listed on the Special list pages. This means that they are being parsed in a new way that correctly detects these errors and that they will show up on the lists once the job queue catches up with them. We should expect a handful of templates to appear in the list over the next week or so. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

New message to Jonesey95

Yeah, I meant to replace EngvarB with BrE on First Sino-Japanese War—luckily, I did message the script author a few days ago to make the swap so that it won't happen again for me or anyone else—and now I'm seeing I'm not the only one to have done so. Remsense ‥ 论 20:14, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

No worries; there are over 100,000 transclusions of that muddled template. It will take us a while to clear all of them. I linked to a few easy-to-fix batches on Template talk:EngvarB for editors with AWB or similar tools. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:58, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you

Greetings, I noticed I accidently created a Template titled "South Indian separatist". I don't know how it's gone to a level where the template is already created.

I appreciate you for reaching out to me. SavetheSouthofIndia (talk) 23:48, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

SavetheSouthofIndia, you're welcome. If you want the page to be deleted, you can copy and paste this: {{Db-author}} onto the page. Include both sets of curly braces.

Quote box

Your quote box change in Special:Diff/1260257670 removed the vertical space/padding between a quote and an author. Can this be reinstated? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 03:36, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. This template has been a thorn in my side for some reason; every time I make an improvement, something else goes wrong. I think I have fixed it. Please take a look. The sandbox contains the previous version, so you can compare them on the testcases page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:16, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this looks great. Thanks Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

EngvarB

Hi, Jonesey, how are you? You've probably seen that I reverted your recent changes here, on the grounds that after two fairly recent deletion discussions both resulting in a clear keep, deletion/deprecation would need a well-publicised discussion leading to a clear consensus of a good number of participants. I'm not saying the template is perfect or that it must be kept, just that we should observe proper process before we give people a reason to make 105,000 (or however many it is) gnome edits removing it. Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:25, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I was doing fine, thanks for asking, until you reversed the consensus-based change at that template without discussing it on the template's talk page. I look forward to you, or someone else, answering the many unanswered questions that have been posted on that template's talk page over the last ten years. It's been quite a mess for over a decade, we were on the way to cleaning it up, and it has just gotten messier. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:47, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Infobox problem

Something you did in this edit caused a ParserFunction error to appear in the "Expenses" field of the infobox, as can be seen in the example infobox on the template page, as well as in the Rainforest Alliance infobox. Deor (talk) 23:29, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Fixed. I should have synced the sandbox with the live template before making changes. A rookie mistake. Thanks for letting me know about this error. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:42, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

And thank you. Deor (talk) 00:13, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Accidental rollback

If you get a notif for a rollback from me, it was accidental, sorry about that. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:58, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

All good. Thanks for taking the time to write a note. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:03, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

November 2024 GOCE drive award

		The Modest Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded to Jonesey95 for copy edits totaling over 4,000 words (including bonus and rollover words) during the GOCE November 2024 Backlog Elimination Drive. Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions! Dhtwiki (talk) 00:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Much to be modest about, as always. Thanks, Dhtwiki. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:27, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Module:Team bracket and Module:Build bracket

Hello. I've seen that you've adjusted Module:Team bracket for use in dark mode. Can you also adjust Module:Build bracket for dark mode? That will be very nice, because this module is also frequently used and I won't make experiments with it. Can you change the code to enable a (set of) css-classes to the seed, team- score and title cekks? That will enable the use of WP:Template styles. This is used in the German Wikipedia. Greetings from Antonsusi (talk) 19:00, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

PitConclave wrote the code changes in question. I just used my template editor rights to implement the change after checking the testcases page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:03, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I'll ask there. Antonsusi (talk) 19:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Wikt-lang template errors

A tag has been placed on Category:Wikt-lang template errors indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:09, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Gonnym, do you want this category? If so, remove the speedy template and place {{Tracking category}} on the category page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:59, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I didn't create it as my work is still in the sandbox phase and I try not to put in place in the public space things that aren't yet in use. But I believe it soon will be so I'll do that (for whoever reads this in the future, if I fail to do so and forget to delete the category, feel free to do so) Gonnym (talk) 09:51, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I created it because the category was appearing on the testcases page, and there is at least one editor who is publicly and noisily sad any time templates create red-linked categories. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:38, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Linter correction

Hi Jonesey, thanks for fixing this. However, I really want to indent these quote divs. Can you specify exactly which wp:lint errors you fixed, and how I can force the divs to indent between the (start quote) and (end quote) markers? TIA. - DVdm (talk) 10:14, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

The problem was an obscure one: In most cases, div tags will cause a syntax error if they start on an indented line and end on a line with a different indentation level. Sometimes, it doesn't even work to put the ending div at the same indentation level. To indent your quote boxes, I have added margin-left: 2em; to your divs. If you want them indented on the right as well, use margin-right: 2em; – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:12, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Ah, perfect. Indentation colons in front of divs cause trouble... who would have suspected that? . I have set the div margins to 4em and reduced the innner indentation colons by two, so they look like before. But this time legit. Thanks a bunch! - DVdm (talk) 15:29, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Guild of Copy Editors December 2024 Newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors December 2024 Newsletter Hello, and welcome to the December newsletter, a quarterly digest of Guild activities since September. If you no longer want this newsletter, you can unsubscribe at any time; see below. If you'd like to be notified of upcoming drives and blitzes, and other GOCE activities, the best method is to add our announcements box to your watchlist. Election news: The Guild's coordinators play an important role in the WikiProject, making sure nearly everything runs smoothly and on time. Editors in good standing (unblocked and without sanctions) are invited to nominate themselves or another editor to be a Guild coordinator (with their permission, of course) until 23:59 on 15 December (UTC). The voting phase begins at 00:01 on 16 December and runs until 23:59 on 31 December. Questions may be asked of candidates at any stage in the process. Elected coordinators will serve a six-month term from 1 January through 30 June. Drive: In our September Backlog Elimination Drive, 67 editors signed up, 39 completed at least one copy edit, and between them they edited 682,696 words comprising 507 articles. Barnstars awarded are here. Blitz: The October Copy Editing Blitz saw 16 editors sign-up, 15 of whom completed at least one copy edit. They edited 76,776 words comprising 35 articles. Barnstars awarded are here. Drive: In our November Backlog Elimination Drive, 432,320 words in 151 articles were copy edited. Of the 54 users who signed up, 33 copy edited at least one article. Barnstars awarded are posted here. Blitz: The December Blitz will begin at 00:00 on 15 December (UTC) and will end on 21 December at 23:59. Sign up here. Barnstars awarded will be posted here. Progress report: As of 22:12, 7 December 2024 (UTC), GOCE copy editors have completed 333 requests since 1 January, and the backlog of tagged articles stands at 2,401 articles. Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators, Dhtwiki, Miniapolis, Mox Eden and Wracking. To stop receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

Message sent by Baffle_gab1978 using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:49, 7 December 2024 (UTC).

Linter error warning in mass messenger tool

Hi Jonesey, when I sent the newsletter, the mass messenger tool warned me in big, scary, red text of a "Linter error: Background color inline style needs text color". I copied the newsletter's wikitext into the message box. Being clueless, I inserted "color: #000000";" into the header code, which squashed the error but messed up the blue border and drop-shadow! This error seems to be new; I've not seen it before when sending newsletters. How should I avoid it in future? I'm rubbish with CSS! Cheers, Baffle☿gab 23:13, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Sigh. That particular Linter error is a new one, and IMO it is both buggy and often safe to ignore. If it ends up being important, we'll need bot runs to fix it in the literally millions of places where it occurs. That said, I'll try to remember to check for it in the future so that you or other editors won't run into that confusing message. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello

…I’m just curious, in this edit summary, you changed the template from {{EngvarB}} to {{Use Nigerian English}}, with the summary, “Whatever Nigerian English is”. I’m just curious as to what you mean by this. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 10:25, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I refer you to the lead of Nigerian English, which says Nigerian English is similar to American and British dialects with the same spelling. The {{Use Nigerian English}} template is supposed to provide guidance to editors about spelling and word usage, but the article provides no such assistance. See Template talk:EngvarB for a lot more in this vein, although I will warn you that it may be frustrating. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Toussaint Dubreuil

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude by undoing your edit. But a sandbox is, after all, a work in progress, so there's little point in making edits before the article is completed and publicly posted. WQUlrich (talk) 03:56, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I did not take it as rudeness, and thanks for the note. I understand that it is your sandbox, but the report at Wikipedia:Database reports/Transclusions of non-existent templates does not differentiate, and it fills up rapidly if it is not pruned every day. I would guess that the report adds about 50+ entries per day, so within a month, it would become quite daunting. Please handle those nonexistent templates as soon as you are able. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I must admit, I didn't know there was a report for that...but Anomiebot is a frequent visitor to my sandbox! I shall be alert for any future incursions. WQUlrich (talk) 07:08, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings!

Hello there, 'tis the season again, believe it or not, the years pass so quickly now! A big thank you for all of your contributions to Wikipedia and help to Wikipedians in 2024! Wishing you a Very Merry Christmas and here's to a happy and productive 2025! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:23, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Dr. Blofeld, thanks for the message! Can you please return to all of the messages that you delivered and close the bold, italic, and div markup? – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:46, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

I gather it can't be fixed by automation. That's a nuisance. No worries I'll sort it shortly Redrose64 has done a few I think. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:44, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)I can't think of a more appropriate gift to Jonesey than more lint to fix/collect   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  16:51, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

I know, right? All I wanted was a nice book to read by the fire, but I couldn't be happier with 400 more Linter errors. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:57, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

If this is a common issue at Christmas then perhaps a bot should be coded. User:DreamRimmer has mentioned coding something. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:05, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

I am not sure if this is a common problem, but I have a bot task approved to fix these types of typos or issues in mass messages, so I can definitely help with fixing any mass messages if requested. I will take care of this Christmas message, but it is bedtime here, so I will handle it tomorrow. – DreamRimmer (talk) 17:12, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

It happens virtually every year, with two or three different messages. There are two main causes:

• Copying an old Christmas message up to but excluding the signature, and adding a new signature (usually as four tildes). The problem with this is that if the old sig was inside markup, the closing tags and other markup are not copied.
• Finding a template like Template:Seasonal Greetings and copying the content from the start down to the line before the line with the <noinclude> tag. The problem here is that the <noinclude> tag is directly preceded by closing markup, which is not copied.

I don't know which one applies here, which is why I asked Dr Blofeld where the original one may be found, so that I can check if it contains errors.

Both situations would be picked up by the lint errors reports at some point, but I don't like leaving them lying around in case somebody else copies the unfixed markup. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:38, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Dream Rimmer. I copied the template

from last year, but seems I chopped off the div and bolden when redesigning the card a bit. The closing div is right underneath and bold very close to signature when you delete it so you see how easily this can be done! I thought it was from my signature! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:29, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Ah, copying an old one. Some of our christmas card messages are provided in the form of templates intended for WP:SUBSTitution. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:55, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Sq vs Squ

It looks like {{sq}} is an exact copy of {{squ}}? For consistency, maybe we should move Template:WSFM to {{sq}}? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 17:43, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Ugh, so many bad template naming patterns and undocumented templates. I'm sure that I looked in the category for appropriate templates before creating this one. Also {{Sqw}} already existed. What a mess. Give me a minute to poke around. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:52, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

I am seeing an incomplete recent move and template creation in this mix. I'm working on tidying up. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:56, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

OK, I think I have it sorted. OCDD might want to comment. If the sq and sqw templates should be moved, a template talk page discussion might be warranted. One thing that occurs to me is that the pattern "sq" and "sqw" tends to "other" the women's teams instead of putting them on equal footing. On the other hand, {{Fb}} and its cohort have an established pattern, and it is useful to follow established patterns. See Category:Flag template system for the pattern. Some template groups spell out the whole name, like {{Flag football men's national team}}. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:00, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Using SQ for men and SQW for women makes them seem like the others. It’s not neutral. If instead of WSF someone wants to use SQ it’s fine as long as M and W are used at the end for neutal templates. WSF M and W were meant for the same reason. WSF since World Squash Federation is the governing body. Whether its WSF or SQ, please do ensure M and W to differentiate teams neutrally. Thank you. OCDD (talk) 19:13, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

HTML misnests

Congrats on getting the HTML misnests (User) list down to near empty! Meant to do more of these, but got pulled away on some other issues and never got in the groove with this set. I've asked WOSlinker if they'd get the three remaining full protected pages, otherwise the rest of the remaining dozen are not ones I understand, so will leave them to your/other gnome's knowledgeable hands. I've scanned the pages listed for the remaining 3092 HTML misnested errors in usertalk, and found that 2373/3092 (88%) of the pages are solo occurrences, so I'm hoping there's a few remaining mass messages with this error and we could get Qwerfjkl(bot) to nail those. Also it looks like the Obsoletes will dip below 1 mill later this week?/after another bot run! Looking forward to that. :) Happy holidays! Zinnober9 (talk) 05:31, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I've been plugging away at the User list, and I think one or two other editors have been fixing a few as well. As for the User talk list, I have found a few batches of 40 or so identical patterns, and I expect to find a few more. Most do seem to be one-offs, typically missing span tags, or small tags used around block content, or unusual circumstances. Happily, most are pretty easy to fix. The User list was at 3,800 just a year ago and 2,200 a month and a half ago, so it just takes steady effort, even for one-at-a-time edits. Fifty a day fixes 3,000 edits in just two months. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Sfnlinknb

On User:Mathglot/sandbox/Templates/Sfnlinknb Is there a way to remove the Multicolon escape error without "sending it back into mainspace" as S.A. Julio objects to? I'm not coming up with another solution beyond wrapping in pre tags to deactivate, but that's a bit too far without verifying there isn't another option at this stage. Wrapping the cats portion in {{draft categories}} (or something like it) would make sense, but I'm not sure how that would be placed. Zinnober9 (talk) 17:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Lots of workarounds. I picked a dumb one that works. I hope we gnomes are not bothering Mathglot too much; Mathglot is a useful editor, and gnomes taste good with ketchup. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:47, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

That's why I asked. I didn't want to get dunked in ketchup and eaten from trying something else not knowing for sure if it would work cleanly without side affects. Thanks! Zinnober9 (talk) 18:17, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Linter

Hey, @Jonesey95. Looking in getting started in some more WikiGnome activities, such as fixing Linter errors, do you have any tips that you'd like to give? Would it be worth it to learn more about CSS/HTML coding in order to find an easier fix? Thanks, Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 20:26, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I strongly recommend starting with very easy errors, like missing end tags. First, go to Preferences -> Gadgets to make sure you have the Syntax highlighter turned on. Then go to this list of missing end tags in article space. Click on the "edit" link next to one of the articles (I find it best to command-click to get a new tab; your browser's shortcut may vary), which should take you to an article with the error highlighted. If the error is easy to fix, fix it, and provide a useful edit summary (see my contributions for examples). If you do not understand how to fix the error yet, leave it for someone else. That should get you started. See Wikipedia:Linter and its talk page history for more details. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

★Trekker (talk) wishes you Seasons Greetings! Whether you're celebrating Hanukkah, Christmas, Chrismukkah, the Solstice, Saturnalia, or anything else, this is the season to share love and joy with friends and family!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:P Aculeius/seasonal greetings/winter}} to your friends' talk pages.

★Trekker (talk) 08:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Misleading section

Thanks for improving my new template: Misleading Section. A newer user did the basics, and a more experienced user did the more complicated stuff Servite et contribuere (talk) 07:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)